Episode 167: Auditory processing disorder – with Hamish Hallett

The episode transcript is below.

Carolyn Kiel: Welcome to Beyond 6 Seconds, the podcast that goes beyond the six second first impression to share the extraordinary stories of neurodivergent people. I’m your host, Carolyn Kiel.

Carolyn Kiel: On today’s episode I’m speaking with Hamish Hallett, a podcast host and journalist with a passion for communication. Hamish also creates content about auditory processing disorder, or APD. He wants to help those with learning difficulties not to feel limited and to embrace what they have rather than feel ashamed of it. Hamish, welcome to the podcast.

Hamish Hallett: Thank you, Carolyn. Thank you so much for that intro. I loved hearing that and thank you for inviting me onto the show. I really appreciate it.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Thanks so much for coming. Tell me a little bit about auditory processing disorder and how do you experience it?

Hamish Hallett: It is a really good question to sort of start this conversation. I think oftentimes the best way to describe auditory processing is where I’m having a conversation let’s say with yourself or anyone else. And oftentimes I’m sort of just processing what you are saying, the information you are saying, and the sounds of what you are kind of saying a bit slower than other people.

And really, it sort of affects me in terms of, like, let’s say I’m in like a very busy place. Oftentimes if there’s lots of background noise, trying to process all this information can be quite difficult. Oftentimes if I’m, let’s say like, even in school as well, sort of like listening to the lecturer often times when they give very long lectures, it can be quite difficult for me to process everything they have said in like, one hour. Sometimes they even do like one hour and a half or two hours. And sometimes that stimulation of information can get very much for me. So sometimes I have to sometimes like take a break. Sometimes even like listening to music, sometimes I get like the lyrics wrong, which is so funny to think about as well.

And you know, it doesn’t just affect in terms of like, you know, processing information from other people. It’s also my processing of what I want to say as well. So oftentimes let’s say I’m on a podcast which I do called In Pursuit of Passion, I oftentimes sometimes want to say something, but sometimes the words don’t like happen. Like sometimes I just like skip ahead in terms of what I wanna say. I dunno how to best is describe it, but sometimes that kind of affects it really. So yeah, that I would say is a good summary of auditory processing disorder.

Carolyn Kiel: Okay, interesting. And how did you get diagnosed with APD?

Hamish Hallett: Yeah. So I was kind of very luckily diagnosed very, very early on. So I was diagnosed when I was about six years old. I think in terms of like the actual story behind it. I remember my mom telling me when I was in like, like nursery school. I think in the United States context I don’t know what that’s what that’s called, but I think it maybe like preschool, not sure what it’s called.

Yeah. So yeah, when I was in nursery, I think a lot of the teachers sort of noticed something a bit, I don’t wanna say odd, cause I don’t think that’s the right way of putting it, but just a bit different from other kids who weren’t neurodivergent at the time. Essentially, I was kind of struggling in terms of like, I was quite shy. I was sort of very like, not processing instructions well. I was very late developed in terms of speaking my first words. I think, I remember like, being so shy, like so, so shy.

And I was then diagnosed by, I believe it was either an audiologist or a speech therapist, I dunno who exactly diagnosed me. But I do remember being diagnosed about like six years old and going to like a speech therapist, sort of quite weekly. Going to a speech therapist to help in terms of like, as I said at the beginning, auditory processing sort of affects not just the processing of information, but also the speaking of information. So going to a speech therapist actually helped me sort of like process what I kind of wanted to say. So really, yeah. I would say that was when I sort of realized like how yeah I was diagnosed with auditory processing.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm, yeah. So it sounds like you got diagnosed pretty early in life and that the speech therapy and other interventions were helpful, which is really great.

So what was life like for you growing up with auditory processing disorder? Like you mentioned being really shy and, and kind of having some challenges like with speech and processing, but I guess, what was school like?

Hamish Hallett: Yeah, it was really interesting really. Cuz I feel like in primary school, I had probably like the best time ever in primary school. Like, I wasn’t, I didn’t really notice I had auditory processing just because yes, even though I had like a helper beside me, I kind of found it quite cool. I found it really interesting having a helper. Even though yes, I was shy around other kids. I didn’t really notice it that much because I was kind of, you know, I think the kids at that, at that age, sort of, I sort of had this sort of like naivety in a good way to not really think about what’s going on around the world. Like I was kind of just enjoying learning things. I was also got along really well with my teachers, actually. My teachers sort of understood, like I have auditory processing disorder and that’s fine. Like my school was super, super supportive and I think I was quite lucky in primary school.

Then weirdly when I went to secondary school, that was when I think a lot of things kind of changed. That’s when I sort of noticed other people like processing things a lot quicker than me. And I remember like year seven when I wasn’t getting the legal support in place from this school and being very, just, I remember just saying to myself, I wish I wasn’t born with this condition. Why, why me? Why Hamish Hallett was I born with auditory process disorder? Like not gonna lie, like really hating myself, if I’m being honest with you. Like really terrible thoughts of if I’m being honest here.

And luckily that sort of, that year seven period did change because the head teacher sort of left, and then a new head teacher came in. And even though I will say right now, even though it did improve in terms of getting the support, if I was having a helper with the right amount of hours you know, there were still teachers not understanding what I had. I felt very misunderstood, which I think maybe you’ve spoken to some of your other guests who felt misunderstood. And I felt part of that. I felt so, like I was, when I kept saying to people, I have auditory processing disorder, I keep getting those like questionable looks like, what’s that? And like, just a lot of it. And oftentimes I was put in like bottom sets, which really knocked off my confidence massively. And I felt like that growing up was kind of what created this sense of just like lack of self worth, because I felt like other kids were doing so much better than me. I had to process things so much more differently. And it just, yeah, I, I didn’t become, you know, the, this confident person that I’m, I feel like I am a lot better now, if that kind of makes sense.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm . Yeah, it’s interesting how sometimes the transition from grade school to like a secondary school will change things. I mean, not for everyone, but a lot of people will have a much easier time in grade school. And then when you get to secondary school and you know, puberty sets in and people start having different interests and you know, like all your classmates start changing.

Hamish Hallett: Yeah. Well, this is the thing. Yeah, I know. And this, I think this is the one thing I’ve sort of, where I’ve been doing a lot of like introspection of myself, I think I noticed that change for me is the biggest obstacle for me that I had to sort of overcome and sort of get used to. And like, don’t get me wrong. Like now I don’t, I’m a lot better with change, but I’m still, there’s been still periods of time where I’m like, even if it was like transitioning from primary school to secondary school was a very difficult change. Even going from like six form to university or college, as in America they say. That for me was a very difficult transition. Just because I feel like oftentimes those with auditory processing love to have everything very structured. And I think a lot of people who are neurodivergent love to have stuff very structured. And for me, it was just a complete change in environment, a complete change in structure that completely threw me off.

And I think that kind of explains a lot of the sense of like why in year seven, I struggled so much. And also what, why I struggled so much in like university in the beginning, you know? So I think, you know, oftentimes it’s about sort of getting used to that change and trying to put like strategies in place, which I luckily found and hope others have done the same in that sense. Yeah.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. And it sounds like in secondary school, some of the supports that you had more consistently in primary school weren’t necessarily there. You mentioned like teachers not understanding or maybe your support person not, not being able to get the same support.

And I, I hear that a lot in interviews as well, is that, you know, a lot of times, if, if kids have the right supports it, it makes a world of difference. And when you don’t and you have to figure out how to advocate for yourself if you’re even in a position to do that. So yeah, that makes it challenging too.

Hamish Hallett: Yeah, it, it, it very much is. And because cause now I’ve done some like introspection, where I’ve actually done like a project actually about schools and how they’ve tried to manage people with APD. And I found it was quite interesting where unfortunately, and this is I, I used to blame the school system. I used to blame teachers for not understanding me and kind, kind of being quite resentful, which I think is completely normal. Especially when you felt misunderstood, you felt like teachers didn’t understand your academic capabilities. But now looking at it now, I sort of see that, you know, teachers unfortunately just don’t know how to teach people with additional needs. I don’t blame the teachers for that. I just blame the system that’s in place because unfortunately teachers just don’t have the right support. Yes, they might do a module on how to teach kids with additional needs. But it’s just one module. It’s it’s not enough. And so I think it showcases the, you know, the real need to really change that in that sense. Definitely.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm. Yeah, definitely. And then, so what was the sort of transition like from, I guess, secondary school or, or high school as we call it in the States to university? Like you mentioned that was another significant change. How was that like for you?

Hamish Hallett: Yeah, no, I, it was a very, very significant change. Interesting enough. I did like, like a gap year just before going to university, just because I felt, you know, I kind of wanted a bit of a rest from academic stuff. I knew my sister who’s older than me did a, did a gap year as well. And she really enjoyed it. So I did like a bit of traveling before then, and also worked a little bit for my mom and dad.

But yeah, if I remember the first few months being very, again, challenging. I remember the day before my birthday calling my mom and dad and my sister saying, “I wanna get out of here. I don’t wanna be in university. Just get me out of here.” Again, it goes back to just not having the structure in place to deal with university. It’s interesting, cuz sometimes you look at university and college as you know, going to freshers week, partying quite a lot, meeting your great significant other, meeting all the friends that you’ll be friends for life, you have this image of university that they create and I wasn’t having that experience. And I felt ashamed weirdly, like I wasn’t enjoying myself. Why was I not having that feeling that was presented to me, right? I talked to a counselor about this when, when I was, when I was going through this sort period of time and said, and said that exact thing, like oftentimes university presents itself of being this exciting new time, you know? Yes, you study, but you also go out and make all the friends that you, that you’ll be friends for for so, so long. But I wasn’t having that experience, but then when he presented to me that way, it kind of normalized it a little bit more.

And really how that sort of changed from being this very sort of like wanting to leave university to then actually embracing it and just loving my rest of the time was like, I was sort of stressed over this one essay, my first ever essay, by the way. First essay for university. I was stressing about it thinking, right, I can’t do this essay. I can’t, I’m not good enough for university if I can’t do this essay. Right? As soon as I wrote it and I published it, I got like a first, which is like the best grade ever. I looked to myself and I’m thinking Hamish, why do you overthink this? You know? And I think, and I think it’s normal. Don’t get me wrong. I think it’s totally normal for, you know, people, neurodivergent people to sometimes like overthink the situation. But I think I just looked at it sometimes as thinking university was supposed to be this way, but actually it’s embracing that university is, can be anything. You know?

So I think oftentimes like with my head, oftentimes I felt like university had to be this one way. And I think it, sometimes I have to teach myself, I think a lot of neurodivergent people have had to teach themselves to sometimes be open to things, not being so, so structured. You know, and I think university is one of those places which are very unstructured and it’s sometimes just, you know, getting used to it and then putting the strategies in place for it, if that makes sense.

Carolyn Kiel: Definitely it’s, you’re right, we do tend to get this image presented to us of what university is supposed to be. Sometimes it’s presented as like the best time of our lives and stuff. And for a lot of people, it is really not the best time of their lives.

Hamish Hallett: Oh God, no, absolutely not.

Carolyn Kiel: And so, and it’s like, oh no, there’s a future in like your, your twenties, thirties, forties and on may be like way, way better for many, many reasons. So, yeah.

Hamish Hallett: Yeah. No, definitely. It’s, it’s interesting. Cause I I’ve had a similar conversation with someone else actually on the podcast, which will be released soon. And it, it was interesting. She was telling me the exact same thing of like, it was interesting how she said it was, you know. Secondary school actually had, gave her all the accommodations, all, everything really, really well in terms of her like dyslexia and think it was Irlen syndrome. But yet when she went to university, the university system didn’t understand them at all. So it’s, it’s really, yeah. It’s interesting how, like, you know, there’s such a, such a difference in, in that sense.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So, I mean, now you are, you’re, you’re a writer, you’re a content creator and some of the content that you create is around auditory processing disorder. So what kind of inspired you to start creating content around APD?

Hamish Hallett: Yeah, no. So actually it’s been a very recent thing that I’ve started. So I’ve always been someone who has been, you know, interested in politics. I still am. Interested in sort of societal affairs, you know, personal development, self improvement, all those kind of things. And I think how the best way to sort of answer the question of like what inspired me. I remember doing a post on Instagram, which was like, let’s talk about it. These posts were normally like, just let’s talk about a subject, create an infographic about it, present information in a condensed way, but something quite detailed, so you’ll understand it basically. And one day I sort of thought, you know what, let’s talk about auditory processing disorder. Why not? You know, just, just, just create a post about it. And I just did it. Just no, no sort of thought thought process behind it. I sort of researched it more and I was like, oh wow. This is really interesting. I’m finding out more about my learning difficulty, which I’d never really known about. And I just started doing some information, found out that like the military, for example, has links with auditory processing disorder. I think it was, believe like 15% of the United States military veterans have auditory processing disorder, which is crazy. Start to think about I know 2.5 million children in the United States have it. And I was telling all these statistics, I was like, oh, this is crazy. So then, you know, created the post and posted it. And found just an absolute kind of, not an onslaught, but just an absolute opening of like appreciation from so many other people who have APD saying, “this post made so much sense to me. I could totally relate to it. I had auditory processing disorder in the third grade. I felt so bad about myself. And yet you made me embrace my, my learning difficulty” and all the onslaught of like comments and positivity around it was like, “oh my God, what the hell? Like, I should have talked about this earlier. Why did I not talk about this earlier?”

But I think, I think the reason why I didn’t talk about it earlier was because I was still figuring out and processing my auditory processing disorder for so many years to then get to the point now where I’m like, you know what, I wanna openly talk about what I struggle with, but what I also embrace about it as well. And so from seeing that post do so, so well, and seeing the, sort of the support around it, I was like, right. If people feel like this, if, if three or four people feel like this, imagine how many more people feel like they don’t feel happy about their auditory processing disorder or feel ashamed by it? I have the platform. I have the knowledge, my own sort of personal experience to really help other people do great with their auditory processing. And so that I think in a nutshell sort of inspired me to help other people, because of the fact that there are people out there with auditory processing disorder who haven’t fully accepted their condition. And I wanna help them sort of embrace it and not see it as something as a, as a negative, but see it as a positive.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm. Yeah, definitely. I know in preparation for this interview, I had to do a little research on auditory processing disorder myself. Because it probably, again, depends on the country. So I’m in the United States. I don’t know if auditory processing disorder is like its own diagnosis, but it’s definitely part of the other learning differences and a lot of neurodivergent people really have challenges around, you know, sensory processing, auditory processing. But I don’t know how much awareness there is, certainly in, in the United States and maybe elsewhere in the world. So I think it’s important to be able to share your experience once you’ve had time to process it as well. Cuz you know, it, it does take time to really process it yourself and be able to talk about it sometimes.

Hamish Hallett: Yeah, no, a hundred percent. I feel like that was something I’ve sort of realized as well. I don’t know when the exact moment was when I sort of processed it all, that I had auditory processing. Because, you know, I knew all along, like I had something like, oftentimes I often say to people, yeah, I have dyslexia. Because I was ashamed by talking about auditory processing disorder and getting the sort of confused looks by saying, oh, what’s that? I didn’t really wanna explain myself, like explain like that kind of awkward conversation.

But now anytime I talk to someone, I say, oh, I have auditory processing disorder. And then people are like, oh, what’s that? And I’m like, oh, it’s this, this, this and this. And so I see it now as actually, you know what? I embrace it. I like talking about it because it allows other people to learn about it. And I feel like , and I think, you know, I’d love to hear what you think about this. I find that education is such a powerful tool for change. I feel like educating people about auditory processing disorder or about anything really can really inspire change within people. People can view auditory processing disorder as something as again, as I reiterate a lot on this conversation about, you know, it being a positive rather than a negative, because I think education, as I’ve said before, is, is such a massive change. It can really help impact people and, you know, can really sort of change and impact the stereotypes and the negative beliefs I think do surround, unfortunately like neurodiversity in that sense.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm yeah. I think education is important and really makes a difference. And it’s great that people are curious instead of just initially approaching it with like, oh, what’s that? It’s like, they wanna know like, oh, well what is that? And you are educating people about it. So it’s definitely easier to talk with people who are curious and wanna learn about it, instead of people who are just like, oh, I don’t know what that is.

And I’ve been impressed personally, just around the whole concept of neurodiversity. For me, I would say maybe like two years ago, three years ago, I don’t even think I was familiar with the concept of neurodiversity. And now, you know, I talk about it on my podcast like every, every episode. And I’m impressed with how many people, just, even in my personal circle, like not only have heard of the term, but have some education on what it is. And it’s been, I’ve had some really great conversations from that. So I think things are changing. So that’s exciting that people wanna learn.

Hamish Hallett: Oh, absolutely. No, definitely. I think that’s, that’s, I, I absolutely agree with you in that sense. I feel like things are changing, which I think is a really good thing. I think since doing what I’ve been doing in terms of speaking about, you know, APD, I’ve actually connected with other people who do the same similar thing to me with like creating content around APD as well. And it shows that, you know, I never would imagine like five or 10 years ago, me sitting here having this conversation with you. And I genuinely admit that. Like, I would never have realized 10 years back that this would’ve been possible, in a sense of people talking about auditory processing disorder so openly, not seeing it as something to be ashamed of and just something to be creating content about to help educate people. As you’ve said, there is a change coming. And I think it’s really important that we are seeing that change. But I think the most important thing is to not sort of sit on that change and actually push forward even further to see more progress and to, you know, hopefully inspire even more people with neurodivergency, if that makes sense.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, absolutely. And what platforms do you create on? Because you’re a writer, but I know you do videos and podcasts, things like that too.

Hamish Hallett: Yeah. So I think at the moment I’m on most predominantly on Instagram, but I’m also doing kind of lot of TikTok as well. So I’d say my Instagram platform is the biggest platform that I use out of all the social media platforms, I feel most at ease with that. So I use that to sort of release the videos in that sense. Like these videos can be really just like, really funny videos of me, like talking about APD in a relatable way. They can be also like sit down videos like me talking to the camera and really talking about subjects. I also create the infographics, which is like, the let’s talk about it posts, which go more in depth about some related to all three processing disorder.

So for example, I’ve done one recently about, should we call learning disabilities “superpowers?” That was the topic I was sort of, I’m still kind of on the fence with that, if I’m being honest with you. Cuz there’s been times where, I get people, I remember having a guest on my podcast saying “you should see your learning disability as a superpower.” And I was sitting here as a host a bit like, I dunno how to, how to respond to this! Because I get the intention behind it. You’re like, you want me to embrace my learning difficulty. I do. But to call it a superpower, you’re kind of in one sense. Yes. I can think differently to other people. And I should embrace that as a, as a genuine gift. But to see it as a superpower, we start to like alienate and make people with neurodivergency, as some other people that are so like, not related to other people. Because oftentimes we just wanna be heard. We just wanna be seen as normal people. And so I did that post after that conversation being like, actually I wanna hear how other people view it. Like in one sense, yes, I understand people wanna view it as a superpower for us to embrace it. But if other people who are aren’t neurodivergent are telling us it’s a superpower, it sort of alienates us and makes us like not human beings. So, those kind of posts, I try and really go in depth about. TikTok I do as well, like to make it you know, all the videos and stuff and yeah, I’ll say those two platforms are the platforms I sort of use the most in terms of the APD related.

However, I also, you know, as, as you said, I’m the writer and a journalist. So I write for a news platform called the common sense network, which is a news outlet that tries to make democracy healthy again, and to sort of help create conversations or allow conversations to happen with people who disagree with each other to have dialogue in a fruitful manner. And oftentimes I wanna try and use that platform to write a bit more about neurodiverse issues as well. So I’m looking into that as well. So yeah, really expanding myself in terms of how I do my content.

Carolyn Kiel: Oh, that’s great. Yeah. The whole superpower conversation is one I could probably go off on like a 20 minute tangent on, which I’ll try not to on this show! I’ll keep it brief. But yeah, as yeah, and I’ll definitely have to find that post and I’ll, I’ll, I’ll link it in here, cuz I’m really interested to read that one. It’s one of those things that sounds nice and empowering on the surface, but at the same time, one it’s alienating, as you were talking about, and two, it kind of dismisses the fact that there are difficulties associated with it, and it makes people think like, oh, you’re fine. You can overcome it. You don’t need any support. You don’t need anything.

Hamish Hallett: Yeah.

Carolyn Kiel: Society doesn’t have to change. It’s like, well, no, not exactly.

Hamish Hallett: So, yeah. Don’t get me wrong. I think it’s important for us to overcome certain barriers and challenges. I absolutely agree with that. But there comes to a point where we are constantly overcoming things and it gets, let’s be honest, brutally exhausting.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah.

Hamish Hallett: It just becomes exhausting, right? And I think oftentimes I’m just like, yes, I like to overcome things, but I don’t wanna overcome everything. There comes to a point where it’s like, when are you gonna just put in the place, so I don’t have to overcome it? I know I’m going, we’re going on so many tangents here, apologies .

Like even, even the word, like “special needs.” I dunno if you’ve heard of it. Even that, it’s frustrating. Because again, it creates this alienation. It creates this idea that if we address your needs, your special needs, somehow you deserve praise and we deserve pity for you addressing our needs? It’s like, no, you don’t deserve praise. Like it’s normal for, for people with dyslexia, for example, to have let’s say Grammarly. Or it’s normal for someone with auditory processing disorder to have an FM transmitter. It’s normal for someone to have extra time in exams because their brains , in a good way by the way, process information a bit slower than other people, and that’s totally normal. But by putting the label “special,” by putting “superpowers,” as we mentioned, we just alienate more and more people. And that is why we’ve got barriers. That’s why, you know, some people who are neurodivergent feel like we need to overcome everything. And it’s like, we don’t need to overcome everything. Look, I struggle with processing information, I struggle with that and that’s fine. I don’t need to overcome it though. And I think to constantly overcome things just becomes very, very exhausting. And I just think it creates unnecessary barriers that just need to be addressed and need to be, you know, chucked in the bin, quite frankly.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It’s also around the, the same concept of resilience and being resilient. Like it’s great to be resilient, but can I like not be resilient for like, a day? Like, I’m tired!

Hamish Hallett: I just doing my Netflix, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like, can I just watch a Netflix series and just not have to think about like overcoming something, right? Like, ugh, tell me about it. Tell me about it.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. And plus a lot of the things you were talking about, the “special needs,” those accommodations wind up helping everybody a lot of times, like accessible design helps, you know. Like how often do I just look at like my Instagram Reels and watch the captions with the sound off, because maybe I’m in a place where I can’t play sound or I just don’t wanna listen to the sound?

But you know, captions were developed for one particular audience and everybody’s reading captions now. So stuff like that, it helps everyone. So it’s not really “special.” It really does help everyone.

Hamish Hallett: Completely. No, absolutely. A hundred percent.

Carolyn Kiel: Absolutely. So yeah. So you mentioned you create all kinds of content and you’re a podcast host and you host an interview podcast called In Pursuit of Passion. You interview people about what they love and the lessons that they learned while they’re pursuing their passion. So what inspired you to start a podcast on that topic?

Hamish Hallett: Yeah. Originally I was actually asked to do the podcast, so actually it wasn’t even my own idea. Interesting enough. So before that I was doing a bit of like a news politics podcast called A Spoonful of News, just for around a year. And during that time I was then approached by a news company called Empart Media. And the two of the people who I’m actually living with now, actually we’re, we’re such good mates now. We’re, we’re all living together, which is amazing. They both approached me and said, “look, we are doing a show, which is all about interviewing people about what they are passionate about, how they found their passion. What inspires them, the ups and downs of their journey. Would you wanna be a podcast host for this?” And I straight away was like, yes.

Because I, I just love people. I love stories. I love just understanding how did they get to where they are now. Because I think oftentimes, and I think maybe you agree or disagree, but it’s oftentimes, we look at social media and we always see like the screenshot of someone’s journey or someone’s sort of like how they got there, without going beyond the screenshot and beyond the sort of iceberg and seeing below. Actually it’s the, the nos, it’s the opportunities. It’s the challenges. It’s the sometimes like not believing in yourself, the self doubt, the imposter syndrome. And really what made me say yes to this opportunity was because, you know what? I really want to help other people realize who are trying to find a passion or are in this particular position where they’re struggling to know what they love and what they don’t love, to say look, it is okay if you are in this position, cuz there are plenty of others who have gone through the exact same thing as you and they’ve gone the other side. And for me it it’s inspiring other people to really pursue what they love or whatever things they love. Because I don’t wanna see passion as this one thing, but as multiple things. I also don’t wanna see passion as once you’ve found your passion, that’s it. As the title says In Pursuit of Passion, it’s a journey towards your passion or towards what you love, you know. Yes, once you discover it, of course, it’s great. But of course there’s always that journey towards it, more and more, or, you know, once you found your passion, you, you still have to work for it. You still have to nurture it. And you know, the podcast really is around, you know, showcasing really inspiring individuals that have done that and to hopefully inspire other people who are in a similar situation.

Carolyn Kiel: That’s interesting. And I have to ask, cuz I’m curious, is it challenging to be a podcaster with auditory processing disorder? Do you have to do things differently or prepare in different ways? Especially since it’s an interview podcast where you have to listen to and process information on the fly.

Hamish Hallett: Yeah. Great question. Yes. The short answer is yes. It can be very difficult because oftentimes I have to write my questions down. I often send the questions over to my guests just so that they know like what to expect. Let’s say I’m having a conversation with someone, I struggle to sometimes like process what’s going on with the conversation. And sometimes I’m just like, right, if I don’t know where, where this conversation’s gonna go, I can just refer back and be like, okay, let’s go to this question. Let’s go to this question. Let’s go to this question. And don’t get me wrong. There are times where, like, let’s say someone said something really interesting and I’m like, okay, I’ve gotta remember this particular part. And I forget about it. And I’m like, damnit, this is so annoying.

But the thing is, I don’t see audio processing disorder as something stopping me. You know, I used to see it as something stopping me from doing things like interviews, like public speaking. I used to. But then I thought, you know what? No, let’s no longer see that anymore. This might be a bit off topic, but I remember being on my year abroad in Canada and going to a radio station, and then speaking on the mic for the first time and doing a bunch of like ads. I remember actually, this is actually quite fun. I can actually do it. And I think oftentimes I think we look at our neurodiversity sometimes and think, because I’m neurodivergent, I can’t do this. Or I can’t do that. And I often think it’s about trying to break away from those stigmas and saying, no, actually, even if I struggle with speaking, even though I struggle with processing information, I can do podcasts in my way.

I can write down my questions if I really want to and just do it that way. And that’s totally fine. I can sometimes just say to the guest, just to let you know, if I might sometimes stumble over my words and that happens and it’s completely normal. And I think it’s sometimes about saying to people not to define yourself based on your neurodiversity. It’s about seeing yourself as, you know what, even if I’m auditory processing, even if I’m autistic or even if I’m dyslexic, it doesn’t mean I can’t do something. It means you can do it your own way. And I think that’s how I see trying to overcome that challenge of being a podcaster whilst having auditory processing disorder.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. I think that’s really powerful. I try to counteract the message of like, you can do ANYTHING! Cuz like, well, I don’t know, most of us can’t do ANYTHING. Like if you take it very literally, and I tend to be quite literal, but it’s true. You can do things differently. You can do them with certain supports and accommodations that maybe you can even put in yourself. Like you prepare a lot or you have the questions written out or you do certain research or, you know, you prep the guest in a certain way. So yeah, that absolutely makes sense.

Cuz yeah, I know podcasters who are deaf, who are hard of hearing, who are blind, and they have their own process for how they record their podcast. If it’s something that interests you, you can do it.

Hamish Hallett: And I always say like, there’s always a way to do something, personally. As, as you said, I, I don’t wanna be one of those people who says, like you could do anything and like, you know, but if you put your mind to it. Of course, there are barriers in place, which I think, you know, I don’t wanna be one of those people who are naive and say like, anyone can do whatever they want. Because of course there are, you know, certain challenges that come with, you know, being neurodiverse or whatever. But I think there’s often, if you actually think about it properly and you just sit back and you sometimes just reflect, there’s always a path that you can do. You can always, as, as you said, take accommodations, if you really want to. You know, there’s always a way. And I always, you know, I always say to people. If, if, if you put your mind to something and find a strategy that works for you, then you can absolutely fulfill, you know, your passion.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. It’s interesting. As you were describing your process as a podcast host about listening and trying to hold certain thoughts in your head, it’s like, yeah, that, that’s exactly what I’m doing, when I’m talking. Like, I’ll go back to that!

Hamish Hallett: Hopefully it’s not too much!

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah I’m like, don’t forget that one! And sometimes it’s challenging because sometimes I’ll get like three points and I’ll be like, okay, try to remember three points. See if I can go back to most of those, but not in a certain order. So yeah, for me, it’s like a fun little challenge. It’s like, all right, how well can I make this conversation flow and, and get all this interesting input and advice from the guests.

So, yeah, definitely. We talked a lot about auditory processing disorder and the essentially advocacy that you’re doing now through your content creation. So I guess, do you have any general advice that you’d like to share for people who maybe have auditory processing disorder or other learning difficulties who are maybe really struggling with that right now?

Hamish Hallett: Yeah, no, absolutely. As I think we said near the beginning of the conversation, sometimes it can take quite a while for you to sort of fully accept your learning condition. And I think that’s totally normal. I did a recent master’s project actually on auditory processing disorder. And one of my questions was, you know, if you had to give advice to someone who’s just been recently diagnosed with APD, what would you say to them? And one person in particular, a person called Sarah Cortez. You know, she said something so wonderful, which is, you know, really first of all, really understand yourself first and then advocate for yourself. Understand how you process things, understand what you like, what you don’t like. And once you do that, really advocate for yourself. Say to people, I don’t understand this because of why. I don’t like going out to a busy restaurant because it’s too sensitive for my, for my ears. Taking her advice and sort of using it on my, my own advantage here, that’s what I would say is my particular advice.

But then to not kind of take someone else’s advice, but also to say my own piece of advice: there will be times when people will misunderstand you. I’ve gotta accept that. Like, people won’t fully understand what you have. And the only way to sort of try and get them to understand is to be very patient and just say, you know, just to be very clear and blunt with them. Just say, look. I have auditory processing disorder. This is what I have, and I’ll best explain how, how it sort of affects me, what I struggle with. And, you know, people won’t fully understand the lived experience of someone with APD, but that’s okay. Like I think oftentimes, you know, even though what I am doing is being very helpful to terms of like educating people who haven’t got APD, of course there’ll be some people who just won’t fully understand it. And it’s coming to that conclusion of being okay with it.

And oftentimes, I also feel like another would be, you know, to really find support networks. Because I feel like, you know, a lot of people say they’re self-made. I got here all by myself, which is a load of rubbish. Let’s be honest here! It’s a load of rubbish. You are not self-made. There are people who have helped you get along the way. Oftentimes I hear this message a lot from my guests on my podcast where so many people say like mentors have helped them, support groups, loads of these groups have really helped them. And I think those with APD I think really try, try and find people who might even have APD and go to them and go for their advice. Or go to like, I know we’ve said schools, haven’t been very acknowledging of APD, even going into school and finding someone, like finding a teacher who could really understand your needs.

Like, I’ve been very lucky, like very, very lucky to have a supporting mom and supporting dad. Like they’ve been really helpful and really pushed me to do anything and not see my APD as a drawback. And, you know, it’s just really trying to find those kinds of people. If it’s not a parent, then that’s absolute fine. It could be a mentor. It could be a teacher. It could be anyone. I think, you know, is, is really important.

So to wrap up my advice, it’s a lot, it’s an extensive list: understand yourself, then advocate for yourself, have a support network and being okay that people won’t understand you.

Carolyn Kiel: Really great advice of how to process it and how to find your way in life. And going back to, you know, a lot of the stuff we see on social media, that impression of the self-made person when you’re kind of seeing people at their pinnacle of achievement. You have to realize that everybody has a lot of people behind helping them, supporting them. So there’s certainly no shame in, in having that yourself. Definitely reach out where you can. Absolutely.

Hamish Hallett: A hundred percent. Yeah, definitely.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Hamish, it’s been great talking to you. How do people get in touch with you if they wanna learn more about the APD content or your podcast?

Hamish Hallett: Yeah, absolutely. So the APD content you can find it all on, you know, my social media. So my Instagram is Hamish, so H A M I S H and then underscore Hallett, H A double L E double T. My TikTok I can’t remember on top of my head, but I do also have a TikTok, but you can always put it in the show notes. And then the podcast, In Pursuit of Passion, on all listening platforms. So the Spotify, the Apple Podcasts, Anchor, you can find all of that on all listening platforms.

And yeah, I also just wanna say a massive thank you for allowing me, you know, to talk about my APD, to talk about my journey and to really hopefully inspire those with APD and those with neurodivergent needs to really sort of take action with their needs. So, honestly massive thank you for allowing me on your show.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, it’s been fantastic. And I’ll put links to your social media and your podcast in the show notes, so people can just click right to it. And yeah, thank you, Hamish for all the work that you’re doing and the advocacy at helping to educate people about APD and to help support people who have auditory processing disorder and other learning differences. So definitely appreciate that too.

Hamish Hallett: Thank you. I really appreciate it.

Carolyn Kiel: Thanks for listening to Beyond 6 Seconds. Please help me spread the word about this podcast. Share it with a friend, give it a shout out on your social media or write a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast player. You can find all of my episodes and sign up for my free newsletter at beyond6seconds.net. Until next time.