Episode 235: Autism Inclusion in the Christian Church – with Sunita Theiss

The episode transcript is below.

Carolyn Kiel: Welcome to Beyond 6 Seconds, the podcast that goes beyond the six second first impression to share the extraordinary stories of neurodivergent people. I’m your host, Carolyn Kiel.

Before we get started, I want to give you a quick heads-up about some of the content in this episode. My guest today talks about her experience with an eating disorder and the death of her father. If these are difficult topics for you, please use your discretion when listening to this episode.

On today’s episode, I’m speaking with Sunita Theiss, a PDA, autistic and ADHD parent, writer and advocate. A second generation Indian American, she has a rich background in communication, marketing and storytelling, and is currently in a season of downshift to be more hands-on with her family. She’s found a number of ways to support and encourage families raising neurodivergent kids.

Sunita is passionate about creating opportunities for culturally responsive support in a way that helps families honor both their values and their children’s needs. She’s a regular contributor to PDA North America’s Insights and Key Ministries blog, and her writing has been featured in a number of publications, including Business Insider and Christianity Today.

Sunita, welcome to the podcast.

Sunita Theiss: Thank you so much for having me.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, I’m really excited to talk with you today. I’ve been following your writing on social media and I’m just so interested to learn more about your story and all the different kinds of, of writing that you do. So, I guess just to start out, how did you first realize that you are neurodivergent?

Sunita Theiss: Yeah. It was a long journey and then it kind of came together really quickly. So I had suspected I was ADHD for a very long time. But because I, I think I was good at accommodating myself and I think my parents had accommodated me really well, a lot of people kind of shut it down because I was like successful in the sort of conventional metrics of success, like career.

And and then I had a, a therapist who was like, ” do you want a formal diagnosis? I see that you’re ADHD.” And then as I became a mom my son was diagnosed autistic and we talked a lot about his similarities to my husband. I related to his deep emotions, but I didn’t necessarily at that point consider that I was autistic.

And then I had my daughter. And she is like, she’s like me in so many ways. And, during a checkup, we were talking to our pediatrician and I was talking about some, some behaviors that I couldn’t tell if they were copying her brother or responding to him or just her own way of experiencing the world. And a provider referred us for an evaluation. And then I talked to my mom and she was like, “oh, you did all those things. You were just like that as a kid.” And so I called the assessor back and I said, “Hey, do you guys do adult evaluations too? Because I, I’m just curious.” And then I got an autism and ADHD diagnosis the same week as my daughter got her autism diagnosis.

So, yeah.

Carolyn Kiel: Wow. And talk a little bit about PDA, ’cause you mentioned that in your, in your bio, but just to tell a little bit more.

Sunita Theiss: Yeah. So PDA is it stands for, formally, Pathological Demand Avoidance. Some people prefer a Persistent Drive for Autonomy or a Pervasive Drive for Autonomy, Persistent Desire for Autonomy. There are other ways, because I think the word pathological just makes, it’s icky, right? Like, we don’t wanna pathologize and over medicalize like just the human experience because like our brains are, are diverse and different.

But it is commonly considered a profile of autism and it’s a a cluster of traits that, that basically center around experiencing sort of everyday ordinary demands and requests as, as threats, or that they activate a very high anxiety response. And so then the avoidance piece becomes the coping mechanism. And avoidance can look like shutting down. It can look like lashing out. It’s unique. I’ve not encountered two PDA individuals who are the same in the way that they experience their PDA.

When I had my evaluation, they noted PDA as something for me to, to look into that would help me better understand myself too. There’s not, again, it’s not in the DSM. There’s a lot of advocacy to get more awareness and more research. But but what I know is that whether they end up qualifying it within autism or as its own thing or somewhere else in, in all the categorizing and, and labeling, it’s a very real lived experience for a lot of people. And it can be very distressing if you don’t have the right support and accommodation.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Thanks for talking more about that.

Um, yeah, so. I guess you found out that you were neurodivergent as an adult, but what was it like growing up I guess, as neurodivergent? Especially ’cause you’re also, you know, you were living in Georgia at the time and you are from a South Asian family, so, and, and neurodivergent. So there’s sort of a lot of intersections I would imagine.

Sunita Theiss: Yeah. The but, many layers for sure. So I, I didn’t realize how much I was struggling socially at first. And I, I had the, the added layer of like being a gifted kid. So I was like bright and precocious and the adults loved me and my other, and my peers, my same age peers thought I was strange. And I always had like one or two friends that were just like, they were always people who were kind to me. Sometimes they were older kids. But I attributed a lot of my social and relational challenges to being Indian. And so I worked really hard to, to like distance myself from this part of my identity. And I have, I mean, I have, I have regret about it. There’s not a lot of shame because I think I was just coping the best way I knew how. But I wish that, like my younger self had known this about herself, you know, because I think it would have helped me be kinder to myself.

I grew up outside of Atlanta. I live in a different part of Metro Atlanta now. And and it was hard because I never felt like I totally fit in with other Indian kids. I didn’t feel like I totally fit in at school. I had “friends,” I put this in like air quotes, who in hindsight I think just like enjoyed that I was willing to like do their homework for them. Right?

And then I also, I went through a season of like really compulsive lying as an early elementary student. I had convinced like some of my like peers in the second grade that I like was friends with the Olson twins, or that like my mom was a werewolf or like, you know, just whatever, like stuff that, which is like such a PDA thing to do. I know now that like there are these sort of, it’s like a social strategy to like level the playing field almost. And so like I can laugh about it now, but I think I was just like so mortified and trying so hard to figure it out.

And I I had a lot of anxiety as a kid that, that manifested in a lot of issues with food and like sensory issues around food that I’m, I’m still trying to better clarify and understand. And we’re a community, I think many of my communities are like this, where you don’t waste food, you keep what’s on your plate. I, I have always struggled with hunger and fullness cues. And then I would make myself throw up in elementary school. And I didn’t know, I was diagnosed with an eating disorder and I was having panic attacks, but it got diagnosed as asthma. And like this because like you, they just, you didn’t see an 8-year-old kid. And so in hindsight I’m like, oh, I was probably throwing up to avoid demands. And then as I entered adolescence, it got combined with body image issues and became this very complicated, many layered thing.

But that, it wasn’t all bad either. Like I would be, I’d be remiss not to include that I still am in touch with some of the teachers I had in high school and middle school. A few years ago I reconnected with an English teacher I had in middle school. And, and he was like, “you always kept me on my toes.” And I was just like, yeah, I probably did, but now, but now I know this about myself, right? Like I would have no problem being like, I don’t think you’re supposed to be teaching us that way.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah.

Sunita Theiss: And so. Yeah, and I had, I had a couple of friends who, who seemed to just embrace me, quirks and all, and they’re still my friends. I don’t keep up with many other people that I knew in high school or even before then.

Like, probably the biggest thing is I wish I had just known that it was neurodivergence and not because I was Indian, that I was having such a hard time. Because which I think I may have been more willing to plug into that part of my identity. And now as a mom of, of kids who are half Indian, I’m trying to figure, I feel like I’m learning with them, sort of how rich my family of origin and, and the culture I grew up in was.

Carolyn Kiel: It’s interesting as, as you talk about PDA to kind of frame the, the lying and making up stories as like something you recognize in yourself, like, oh, that was probably related to PDA. ’cause I don’t think a lot of people think of that as, as the reason. think there’s some other, like, behavior problem or you don’t understand something. It’s like, no, but that’s, I think that’s a really important insight for, you know, especially parents who may be struggling with seeing that in their kids. maybe an impulse in themselves is like, well it could be, you know, it could be PDA potentially.

Sunita Theiss: Yeah, I mean, ’cause it’s, some people call it leveling, some people call it equalizing behavior. Like the idea is that, and I see this in my, in my kids too, that we don’t see others as superior or inferior to us, like everyone, and, and you’re constantly trying to like level the playing field or put everyone on equal footing.

And so even, even with my, my son, we homeschool, and there’s not a teacher student dynamic. He calls me his schoolwork partner. Right? And, and so that is, that is the dynamic we have is we are partners in the way that we are doing education at home. And I think that is the only, not the only reason, let me not trend into like an extreme, but I think it’s a significant part of why it’s successful is because there’s not, like, I’m not sort of an authoritarian over him imposing work. I, I sort of give him a menu of items and he does as much or as little as he wants and we, we seem to be moving towards a, a season of more capacity, but that fluctuates too.

Carolyn Kiel: That’s a really important point. And, you know, as, as part of your upbringing, you grew up as part of the Hindu faith and then now are part of a Christian faith. So of, so you have this sort of unique experience of growing up and experiencing being a, a neurodivergent woman, a neurodivergent parent, having neurodivergent kids in both of these communities, like a little bit compare and contrast. What was your experience like in the Hindu community first as you know, a neurodivergent kid, and then as, as a parent?

I.

Sunita Theiss: Yeah. It’s interesting because Hinduism is so tied to culture and ethnic identity too, for a lot of Indian people. I mean, it’s the, it’s the dominant religion by, by a significant margin.

Hinduism I’ve found is it can be a lot less structured than I think the experience of sort of the, the western picture of religion and church and like a specific order of service. Like we have religious holidays where people come together and they worship like their holy days. But a lot of my family’s religious experience growing up was, was private at home. My mom had a place where she prayed every day in our house and she would tell us, you know, today on this day it’s the, it’s a festival for this, this god or goddess and this is what it’s for. And we would participate.

But I was like, it was almost like just a, it would probably grieve her to hear this, but I, sorry, mom. But I was like, I was detached from it. Like I didn’t fully engage and I didn’t understand, but I knew it was an obligation, which made it hard sometimes to participate.

And at the same time, like it was such a huge part of my childhood. There are certain things, certain smells, certain colors, certain times of year that like still, I, I remember doing things with my mom and my kids are getting to experience some of that with my mom too. And so like recently there was a festival called Holi. And one of the ways that we celebrate is like throwing colors on each other. And we didn’t do that, but she had some colored powder in a dish and my kids got to put it on the other’s face, and she prayed for them. And it was just, it’s really beautiful to see them engaging it and like, having more fun because it’s not, there’s no pressure to participate. And so they’re excited to learn and participate.

And then at the same time, my story to becoming a Christian in hindsight is like, also like such a PDA thing. Like I went to church because well-meaning but I think misguided Christians were saying things to my family. My dad was very sick for a very long time, and comments were made to the effect that like, “if they just accepted Christ, he would be made well.” Which is not, it, it’s, it’s a take, but it’s not Biblically based. It’s not, I think in a sort of an orthodox Christian take, orthodox in like the smaller way. But then a friend invited me to church, so I went, which is like, I was like, oh, this is a way to like tip the scales at home,

Carolyn Kiel: oh, mm hmm.

Sunita Theiss: and not understanding like the acute pain that my, my mom had experienced. But I went, I, I wouldn’t always participate. I had this big sort of mountain top emotional experience. Someone handed me a Bible, I said a sinner’s prayer. I had no idea what was going on. I went to church for a couple months and then I stopped going.

And then in college I was just having a hard time. I didn’t, I didn’t believe in much. And I remember sort of halfheartedly praying like, “God, if you are real, now would be good.” And I have come to believe that sort of the, the events that followed were, were kind of a divine intervention in a season of my life that was very hard and and I was making really dangerous choices interpersonally and socially. I was, I was a hurting kid. My dad had just passed away. I was, I was in my early twenties.

But the thing I’ve, I’ve, I found across faith communities is that humans are human no matter what they believe. And humans are imperfect no matter what they look like. And humans experience their hurt and, and they project their hurt onto people no matter where they live, what they believe. And when things are different, people get uncomfortable. And so growing up, believing in reincarnation, hearing, well, your dad is probably sick because of some like karmic consequence of something he did in the past life, to, well, your children are autistic because of sin or because God wants to test you or because the world has fallen. They’re all different flavors of the same thing. And I think that same thing is rooted in, in a fear of the unknown.

And so that’s kind of why I started this account and started posting about my experience and started sharing was because I just wanted to be a, a, a face that looked like mine because I hadn’t seen that earlier in our family’s journey. And also just to like very gently offer a gentler view that is still very much rooted in what I believe about God and about my faith, but hopefully offer some encouragement and, and, and gently challenges the preconceptions people have about neurodivergence and disability more broadly.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, that’s, it’s like a, a combination of things. So it’s, it’s really interesting that you, you know, now as a, a devout and practicing Christian, but still being able to separate out those types of reactions that people have to disability and sickness when they’re hurting, and to realize like, that’s not Biblically based Christianity, or that’s, that’s not part of your beliefs even though you, yourself are, you know, a part of the Christian faith. Everybody’s faith is different and a lot of people aren’t able to do that.

And I, I guess your writing probably helps you kind of work through and talk about a lot of that. ’cause you do cover a lot of those topics. So, yeah, I mean, like what kind of things do you write about in order to kind of shed light on those types of things?

Sunita Theiss: But yeah, so I think I’m a researcher by nature. Like when I encounter a problem, I learn everything I can about it. So when my dad was sick, I, I made it my business to become like the most competent 10-year-old about epilepsy. Right? Or about cancer or about what, you know, all the different, different things that he had going on.

And so then when my son got his diagnosis and then my daughter and then me, I was like, well, I just, I need to learn everything I can about how we talk about this. I need to contextualize it within our faith. You don’t really hear it preached from the pulpit in most churches. But if you, if you look at like in, in the Bible when, when Jesus was resurrected, right? Like, and this is not gonna become a sermon, but this is just sort of how, how my writing stuff started. And, and Doubting Thomas, right, is like a, it’s a better known story. He doesn’t say, “Thomas, look at my healed, clean and perfect body.” He says, “put your hand in my side.” Which means he, like, he was actually still disabled in some way, right? Like those were disabling injuries to nail someone’s feet and for the, the holes to still be there, right? Like, that, that picture is not a picture we think about. I think it, it makes us uncomfortable ’cause it’s outside of our human conception that someone could be resurrected and, and redeemed and still have their injuries in some way or still have their disabilities in some way.

And so I just started learning and learning and, and reading and, and trying to consume as much as I could. There’s a growing body of autistic Christian writers, autistic Christian theologians, and I just tried to consume as much of their work as I could. And the thing is that it’s very academic. And I just wanted to write, I wanted to create just sort of processing my family’s experience out loud, whether it’s about parenting or about faith or about marriage or my experience navigating my sort of varying identities. But I wanted to do it in a way that felt accessible and approachable and gentle so that you don’t need a PhD necessarily to, to figure it out. I want it to be like, the vibe I wanna have is like a friend you’ve texted ’cause you’re having a hard day and they’re like, “oh, let me info dump about this to you.”

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah!

Sunita Theiss: And so I, you know, topics vary. Generally a lot of parenting and motherhood. But also I try to create some informative content, especially not exclusively for, but especially for a Christian audience. Maybe they haven’t really thought about autism in a specific way, or they haven’t thought about PDA at all, right? And they’re just being told they have a bad kid. To help them rethink and reframe that narrative. Our kids aren’t, aren’t bad kids. They’re frequently having a hard time. And it’s on us as the adults with fully formed frontal lobes to, to facilitate making their time less bad.

Carolyn Kiel: I’ve read some, some of your writing that, that you’ve shared on your website and yeah, those messages I would imagine are very comforting to people who are neurodivergent or have neurodivergent kids. It is well researched, but you don’t have to be a theologian in order to understand it and it resonate with you. So, no, that’s really powerful.

I feel like the, the church overall and the relationship with disability does tend to be equating it with sin and, you know, punishment and things like that. But there are, you know, if you read through examples in the Bible, like the one that you cited, it’s, it’s interesting to see that disability is in there. And it’s kind of amazing as a Christian to think that, the son of God, like God could have healed Him completely but He chose not to. And like, why? Be, you know?

Sunita Theiss: Right. Yeah, and, I think so much of the way our societies work, I mean throughout history is your worth is in your output. Your worth is in your capacity. It’s in your ability. Whether it’s to generate revenue, to have the greatest flock of sheep, to barter most effectively, to invest really well, to be really, really good at football, to lift a lot of weight. Like we are wired for more and more and more. And to slow down, to accommodate, to, to move at a pace of life that includes everyone that thinks universally is, is countercultural. And I think for me, the church should be countercultural. And right now, I think a lot of the time churches are countercultural in a pretty negative way. But I think we have the opportunity to just, to be kinder, to be gentler, to advocate for slow, inclusive, tender, gentle communities that, that remind everyone that we are all loved. We are all made in the image of God, right? Like, that’s, that’s the message that I hope that people engage with my content take away. I know it’s not for everyone, and I know people have had deep, deep pain in churches and I, I don’t claim to be able to undo that, but I hope that that’s not what people encounter when they experience what I’m posting and writing about.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, and a lot of the topics you write about are around like inclusion and, and a sense of belonging. Because a lot of time, you know, people with disabilities or people who, you know, are autistic or ADHD or have family members or children who are, you know, don’t always feel welcome in the church. And I know you’ve written about examples of you experiencing that personally with you and your family in church. So I think that’s important also for, for people to hear is, you know, as you were saying, the church really should be inclusive and, and welcoming and kind to, to to, to everyone.

Sunita Theiss: We, at our church, I’m part of a, a working group to start a disability ministry. And one of the things that one of our pastors said that has, has stuck with me and I think could apply universally beyond disability ministry is that, he wants it to be a ministry of belonging. So it’s not like we’re going to create a separate space, but that we’re going to augment, adjust, adapt everything the church is already doing, to be more accommodating, to create belonging in, in the spaces that already exist. And I think that is a nuance that often gets missed in Christian spaces.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah.

Sunita Theiss: There, there are some communities doing it really, really well. But I, I heard one statistic that I think like 80% of churches don’t have any kind of disability ministry or any kind of like intentional effort that’s being made. And that’s not surprising. But I think it’s also because we’ve created this picture in our minds, it has to be expensive, it has to be everything all at once. But, inclusion is sometimes just shaking somebody’s hand or waving to someone and saying, “I’m so glad you’re here,” and not taking it personally if they don’t communicate back to you in a way that you expect.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm. Two of my favorite recent articles that you’ve written are around that image of how you can make people feel included and, and feelings of belonging and, a famous story within the New Testament of the Bible about Jesus, like welcoming the children, and basically that comment of like, ” let all the little children come to me.” It wasn’t like, let some of them come to me. Or like, not those kids, they’re loud! Or anything.

Sunita Theiss: And his disciples are like, no, no, we, no, don’t let the kids. Like, and, and, and he’s like, “no, let them.”

And you know, and that, that’s another thing that I think people don’t, don’t give enough weight in, in, in scripture. I mean, a lot of people do. I keep saying like, that’s the thing people do, but it’s not universal.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah.

Sunita Theiss: But that it was counter-cultural to regard children so highly in that time. Like 2000 years ago, children had no standing, they had no autonomy, they weren’t extended a lot of dignity. And, and I, and in, in hindsight, it was probably like a systemic self-protection because life expectancies were not what they are today.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah.

Sunita Theiss: Infant mortality rates, like there’s all these things, like you can sort of, you can think back like why a mindset might have been what it was. And that’s also why that specific example you cited is, is so radical. Because he was saying, “let the kids come to me, give them an audience with me.” Because this is a, he is surrounded by people who, who are saying, “this is the son of God. This is God in front of us.” And they’re saying, ” why would we let kids get one-on-one time with him? He’s too important.” And he is like, “no, they’re important. Be like them.” And, I don’t know how we got to, “children should be seen and not heard” from there. Right?

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah.

Sunita Theiss: But that is a, a very real experience. And then when you’re neurodivergent and you communicate differently or you need different things and the way people communicate with you, how do we accommodate that, right? Like we, we shouldn’t be creating spaces where kids feel like they have to conform. We should be giving them freedom to be themselves and better understand who that is.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, and that makes me think of another thing that you talked about in one of your recent articles that just kind of blew my mind when I read it, is the whole historical context of the phrase, “spare the rod, spoil the child.” And, and I hope you don’t mind talking a little bit about that because I think we all have in our head like what we think that means. But, you know, in a historical context, it may not mean that at all. And

Sunita Theiss: Yeah.

Carolyn Kiel: that relates directly to how we treat children, especially around, you know, neurodivergent and, and people who, you know, just are

Sunita Theiss: Yeah.

Carolyn Kiel: different in some way.

Sunita Theiss: Yeah. It’s, it’s so interesting because there are, there are sort of subsets of, of Christianity where that’s, it’s a prevailing notion that that is license to spank your children, right? And I couldn’t sort of get my head around this idea that, like that just didn’t jive with who I was experiencing God to be as this like good and gentle parent who loves us, who lets us. I think in, in the article you’re talking about, I wrote about the Prodigal Son, you know, who like, who leaves and basically is like, he, he basically says like, I want my inheritance now. I’m disowning you, Dad. I’m gonna go party and come back. And, our pastor painted this picture of the father seeing his son and like running to meet him, even though a, like someone of that man’s standing should not be seen running. And b like his son had so gravely offended him. But he like, what if he went to meet his son because he wanted to get there before the rest of the village because they were surely going to stone him and excommunicate him, right? So if that is the picture of who God is. How do you reconcile that with, I need to, to beat my kids?

And, and the phrase “spare the rod, spoil the child” is, is actually not what is exactly in Proverbs 13. That specific phrase came out of a, I think it was a 17th century poem that is like satirical and like really sexually explicit for the time. And the interplay of the, the voices of the poem is, and it’s been a few months since I’ve read it, but is that he’s like flirting with the female love interest and she says something about like, treating him like a child, or am I your mother? I can’t remember. But then he says, well, then like spank me baby is kind of the gist of it, right? Like I, I think in the

Carolyn Kiel: Wow.

Sunita Theiss: article I wrote for Christianity Today, I wasn’t that overt in sort of the interpretation of it. But it’s meant to be really sexual, like, and it was intentionally warping the scripture.

And I’m a researcher, right? So I was like, well, okay, we’re talking about sheep and shepherds and rods. And, and so the, the rod was not something the shepherd used to beat his sheep. Like how could he be a God who, like “thy rod and staff comfort me,” right? Like, how is that a comforting thing? And, and so a rod would probably have been used to like beat off wolves to protect the sheep. And a staff was probably a, what’s the word? A shepherd’s crook. That’s why a lot of times in, in liturgical traditions, like a bishop or, cardinal or, or, or whoever, like sort of in, in more liturgical sort of historical traditions, like Catholic and Orthodox and even Anglicans, like the staff will look like a, a shepherd’s s crook that they’re holding. That was not used to beat sheep either. It was used to guide them and if they got stuck like on a cliff, like you would use it to like yank them up basically to help them find their way back to you. So when you think about a rod and a staff in, in that context, you’re like, yeah, that offers comfort and safety.

And so then you have to think about like all of this Christian parenting literature that has been written, sort of interpreting that to say, well, you have to spank your kids. That’s how you show them you’re in charge. And then, and then I have a PDA kid and I’m a PDA adult and spanking isn’t gonna work for any of us.

There’s a book coming out later this year if your audience is interested in sort of this conversation around Christian parenting, called The Myth of Good Christian Parenting. I think it releases in October. And I’ve talked to the authors a few times and they’re they’re basically sort of taking a, a, a large scale review of popular evangelical parenting literature. And they aren’t offering parenting advice. But if people are sort of interested in how those views have evolved to become, like mainstream positions, it’ll be an interesting read, I’m sure. So

Carolyn Kiel: Wow.

Sunita Theiss: I’ll plug that because I’m really excited to read it when it comes out.

Carolyn Kiel: And what’s the title of it again?

Sunita Theiss: It’s called The Myth of Good Christian Parenting, and the authors are Kelsey McGinnis and Marissa Burt.

Carolyn Kiel: Okay. Yeah, it’s interesting to be able to go back and do that research and try to understand that the, the context in which these stories of the Bible was written is not necessarily the context of, you know, a few hundred years later. And, and the way that we kind of view these things. Yeah, I mean, I, I’m definitely going to link to your writings because I want to share them

Sunita Theiss: Thanks.

Carolyn Kiel: with my listeners and such. What’s the best way for people to either get in touch with you if they wanna learn more about your work. One, your writing, and two, I know you’re starting some new really exciting coaching

Sunita Theiss: Yes.

Carolyn Kiel: type of work that I wanna make sure you have time to talk about too.

Sunita Theiss: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. My website is SunitaTheiss.com, so first name, last name dot com. That’s also my Instagram handle. I have accounts on like Threads and Twitter, but I don’t use them, but that’s my handle everywhere. Substack is linked from my website, but it’s SunitaTheiss.substack.com. I tried to keep it very consistent. If people want to connect, I’m the one responding to everything. So if people wanna engage, I’d love, I’d love to hear what people are thinking, what they’re interested in, how they’re processing out loud.

As far as coaching, yeah, I just recently started working with Amanda Diekman, who is known on the social media world as Low Demand Amanda, and she wrote the book, Low Demand Parenting. She’s also a PDA adult parenting neurodivergent kids who are multiply neurodivergent, including PDA in, in some cases. And so I will be working as a, a low demand certified parenting coach to support families. I’m really looking forward to working with families who are maybe navigating PDA and neurodivergence more broadly in, in the context of faith, faith dynamics or cross-cultural dynamics.

So you can go to AmandaDiekman.com/coaching and use the code SUNITA15 to book a pay as you go session or a package to get $15 off. I’m also doing 20 minute free intro calls, so those are, those are free and they can go on and book.

And then in a few weeks, I’m gonna be doing a writing workshop, a creative writing workshop for parents of neurodivergent kids. I have a couple of neurodivergent adults signed up also. But the goal is just to create a, a safe and gentle place to process this life out loud if you want to, or just on paper. After we get done here, I’ll set up a coupon code for you too, and that way you can just put it in, in the description if people wanna get a little discount as well.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah!

Sunita Theiss: By the time you post this, it’ll be set up and people can do it.

Yeah, I, I would love to have people come. The goal is just to, it’s really hard to sit down and write and process out loud when you’re going all the time and anticipating everyone’s needs. And so I’m hoping this will be just a place to come and breathe. And I’ve got a few prompts ready. People don’t have to follow them. If they just wanna sit and listen, they can. They don’t have to have their screens on. There will be time to introduce the prompt, write on your own for a bit, and then if you wanna share, you can. And then after the call, everyone will get a recap of the prompts and a few extra ones so they can just keep writing.

And my, my hope is that it just helps, helps people kind of think through and process their experiences. Because I think the, the way that I keep coming back to being regulated and peaceful is through writing. So those are the two things I’m offering now and, and hopefully more to come.

And then this summer as well, I’m hoping to launch a short, like three part course for Christian parents of PDA kids to just better

Carolyn Kiel: Oh wow.

Sunita Theiss: understand PDA, how to talk to your church about PDA. Stuff like that.

Carolyn Kiel: Cool.

When this episode is published, if you go to the show notes, you will see a link to the events and the programs.

Sunita Theiss: Thank you. Thank you.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. And can you just briefly talk a little bit about what low demand parenting is? Is it similar to gentle parenting or how does that work?

Sunita Theiss: Gentle parenting is, is complicated, right? I think, I think people often conflate gentle parenting with like permissive to a point of negligence, which it’s not. Right? I think gentle parenting broadly is meant to be authoritative but not authoritarian. It’s meant to sort of honor your kids’ experience and autonomy.

Low demand parenting is a little, a little bit different. Amanda has written six pillars into her book if people want to read it. It’s meant to just honor your kids’ autonomy and their agency and and specifically in the context of PDA too, to minimize the amount of demands you place on your child so that they can thrive. And, and also so that you as a, as a family can thrive. We wanna reduce the pressure for both kids and parents so that they can, they can build connection, they can lower the stress of their family, they can support their kids’ nervous systems, and they can just sort of honor each of their unique capacities within a family.

The reality is whether you’re PDA or not, if you’re neurodivergent, most of the conventional parenting strategies won’t work. I often question whether they’re working for more typically developing kids too. And so just finding ways to honor your child’s autonomy in safe and sustainable ways as parents is, is, is sort of the heart of it. And I think in the context of different cultural norms and, and faith-based communities, there’s a lot more nuance that’s required, but hopefully I can come alongside families

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah.

Sunita Theiss: as they’re figuring that out.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for describing that in more detail. I think that’s gonna help a lot of neurodivergent parents and kids. And as you said, it might even be good for, you know, neurotypical parents and kids too. It sounds like it really could be.

Sunita, thanks so much for being on the show. Is there anything else that you’d like our listeners to know or anything they can help or support you with?

Sunita Theiss: Yeah, just come say hi. Follow and subscribe. It helps me get my work out there and connect with people who need it. If it resonates with you and you engage with it, I don’t understand how all these things work, but then the algorithm magic happens, and then more people who are the right audience see it. I know you are trying to figure this out all the time.

Carolyn Kiel: Exactly.

Sunita Theiss: it’s complicated and it doesn’t make sense. But yeah, if, if anything I’ve said resonates with your listeners or even if it doesn’t resonate and they wanna have a debate about it, like reach out. I, I just, I want people to feel heard and to feel seen. And so however I can do that would be great.

Carolyn Kiel: Okay. Sounds great. Wonderful. Well, thanks again, Sunita. It was really great talking with you on the podcast today.

Sunita Theiss: Thank you, Carolyn.

Carolyn Kiel: Thanks for listening to Beyond 6 Seconds. Please help me spread the word about this podcast. Share it with a friend, give it a shout out on your social media, or write a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast player. You can find all of my episodes and sign up for my free newsletter at Beyond6seconds.net. Until next time.