Episode 209: Autistic burnout and career change – with Shayonee Dasgupta

The episode transcript is below.

Carolyn Kiel: Welcome to Beyond 6 Seconds, the podcast that goes beyond the six second first impression to share the extraordinary stories of neurodivergent people. I’m your host, Carolyn Kiel.

Carolyn Kiel: On today’s episode, I’m speaking with Shayonee Dasgupta. Shayonee is a Mumbai based freelance writer and editor who initially pursued a career in law, working with corporate law firms in India. She found out she’s autistic and has ADHD in her 30s, prompting a transformative journey of self discovery and learning to navigate life anew.

Shayonee, welcome to the podcast.

Shayonee Dasgupta: Thank you so much, Carolyn, so nice to meet you and lovely to be here on the podcast.

Carolyn Kiel: Thank you. It’s great to meet you too, and happy to have you here. So I’d love to learn more about your, your personal story. So what was it like growing up before you had your autism and ADHD diagnoses?

Shayonee Dasgupta: I think right from when I can remember in childhood, I have always felt that something was weird about me that, you know, I was just not like the other people around me. I would replay every single conversation that I would have with with my parents or with my friends at school. I found it difficult to socialize, play with kids my age. And every social interaction, even with family, was always a challenge.

And I think, as I neared teenage years, my parents simply thought that I was just throwing a tantrum, but it became increasingly difficult to, you know, present myself or talk to people. And I think, I mean, now I know I was masking and scripting, but then I developed all these coping mechanisms where I would go through a list of things in my head before I would meet someone, or just give the responses that I think they would like to hear and never really express what I truly felt about pretty much anything.

The other thing was that my father, he, I moved around a lot when I was growing up, like three years in one city and then the next three years in a different city because of the, of the kind of work that my father did. That just added to the problem because I felt that the closer I was to kind of somehow setting on a script and following through and kind of, you know, hiding behind that, all that weirdness and perfecting a mask, then I would have to change that all over and start afresh. And always looking for cues and kind of understand what the other person wants to hear from me. How do I best sort of please them?

And that also meant that I, I focused excessively on doing well in, in my academics, because I knew that I had a lot of social deficits, so as to say. I was not even like, good at any outdoor activity. I would start off, you know, learning something, but they would all be very short lived. So my parents thought that was very impulsive that today it’s painting, tomorrow it’s dancing or something like that.

So, all of that was just, you know, okay, let me just be this straight A student so that no one has a chance to complain. And as women, especially as girls growing up, I think there’s also a template that you have to follow. So it was very, I think subconsciously I was absorbing all of it. And there was a little voice in my head that told me that, you know what? Something is, is missing. But I just powered through it because that is what we are taught that you are just, that’s how you’re just supposed to go on with life.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, it’s interesting when you look back after knowing that you’re autistic and have ADHD. It’s like, oh, okay. I understand how so much in my life made sense. But yeah, when you’re going through it, it just seems like these are the expectations of me and I just have to figure it out. And then you, as you said, you create these different coping mechanisms and masking the way that you think and, and look and feel and everything about you and just becomes part of your life. Yeah.

Shayonee Dasgupta: In fact, I remember that I would have difficulty in establishing eye contact when I was in school and, or I would, you know, excessively flap my hands when I would talk. And that always, you know, all teachers used to point out that, you know, why do you do this? You shouldn’t be fidgeting so much.

And after I would come back from school, I would just, you know, I have a younger sibling, but I would just not allow her to say anything. I think it was my way to decompress after a whole day of masking. And I would just insistently talk about what happened in school, very animated. And I think, but that’s the thing, you know, when you’re, when you’re so focused in school, nobody looks at it as something wrong because parents are very happy that, you know, she’s so engaged in everything that’s going on in school. But all of it was really to come back to my baseline because I just didn’t know what was going on when I was spending those six, seven hours in school.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Yeah. You’re spending all that energy, you know, trying to behave and act in a certain way at school that you just come home and like release it. It’s just so much.

Yeah. Wow. And so you started your career in actually a very intense field. You started your career in the field of law. But you faced a lot of challenges when you were working in law. So what kind of challenges did you face working as a lawyer?

Shayonee Dasgupta: So I was a corporate transactional lawyer. So I didn’t, I never had to go to the court and litigate. And I don’t even know how that would have panned out for me. But even then, the constant need to interact and communicate became exhausting at a level, like I would commute, maybe an hour to reach work and then there would be about, you know, three, four hours of calls or meetings or something or the other. And I felt that I just had no energy to really do anything after that.

And, and it was, it was very difficult to really articulate this to my seniors, because you are just expected, you are expected to hustle, you’re expected to put in the hours. And it was this silent struggle. That’s how it all started. And I’m talking about the first six months of my, of my career. I was absolutely confused that, you know, everyone seems to have that energy to go through or focus at the work, but I would just be exhausted with all the interaction, all the discussion.

And sometimes the instructions would not be clear. There was a lot of expectation also to read between the lines and understand what, you know, what the senior wanted. And I was extremely bad at it. And I think in, in environments like law firms, how you, how you interact with your colleagues, what’s your social standing has a big impact on how your career graph is going to look.

And I absolutely, I just, I could never crack the code. Because I would either become too friendly, too inquisitive, and that would be, you know, you’re being too nosy. Or I would be too aloof because I just didn’t know what to do. What is the right amount of, you know, what should I say? What should I not say?

And I think this coupled with the intense work that I was doing, it’s like my brain was in a constant state of fatigue that I could just not recover from. And the hours were grueling. So it impacted my sleep. Because I was sleeping really less over a prolonged period of time, my executive functioning skills that were already impaired, just, you know, they took a larger hit. And that in turn started affecting the work.

So it was almost like, I wish I could just stop it all and chill out and reset. But that opportunity never came. I mean, I would, you know, at, at best, I would take vacations, but since I didn’t really know what was the, the reason why I was facing all of this. So I was doing it all like a neuroconforming person. I would just think that I’m stressed and all I need is a vacation or maybe a massage. Or and, and I developed this, this, this horrible habit of shopping constantly, because that was just my way to deal with stress. Because I would keep having so many thoughts at the same time. And some of them would not be very pleasant thoughts. And I would constantly think of, you know, should I just end my life? Is this even worth going through? I would fill that void with things and just, you know, run up a credit card bill and think that that’s all just going to get, you know, it’s okay. It’s just a phase. It’s just a phase.

But over time, and I did this for seven years. So it was not that, you know, I, it just happened very soon. It was over time, the buildup was gradual. And looking back, I think, I in fact entered a state of hyper focus because I was on a matter for a very long time. And somehow I think my neurodivergent skills in my brain really helped me because, because of the hyper focus, everyone thought that I’m this excellent, you know, person to have on the team. And even I thought that, you know, maybe I’ve overcome all my challenges. And now my path is clear.

I think the hyper focus got a bit much because that was just followed by a shutdown and just absolutely losing control. I just didn’t understand what was going on. I kept thinking it was my physical health. Then I thought it was also my mental health. I got married around the same time. So I was like, okay, too many big changes in life happening. And all of that led to this, this time of my life when I had no clue what was going on. I would wake up, force myself to go to work, and the day would just pass by and I would not get anything done. And I would just stare at my computer and be like, what has happened to me? It was like something inside, some piece has just gone missing.

Eventually, this led to like a full blown burnout. It was, it was just bad. Like I just couldn’t continue working. And in the middle of a transaction, I I just, I put in my papers and I say I can’t do this. Because I would I would be sitting in office and constantly think of not being alive or, you know, how, how best to reduce the suffering. And these are not, these are not normal or healthy thoughts to have at all. And no job is, is worth dealing with these thoughts on a, on a regular basis. Like I would go to sleep and, and have all of these thoughts marinating in my head. And I would dream of emails that have never hit my inbox. I would wake up with a jolt. So it was, it was quite a journey.

Carolyn Kiel: And. I would imagine it’s tough because a lot of careers, like law, it’s almost like there’s this expectation to be stressed out. And like, oh, you know, of course you’re tired and stressed, you’re working long hours and you’re working really hard. So it’s hard to really gauge like, okay, is this, is this normal? Or is this really like, no, this is a serious problem. Other people are not feeling this way, even though people may be saying like, “Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You need a vacation, need a little break and then you’ll be fine.” But yeah.

Shayonee Dasgupta: You’re so right. Because there’s a lot of glorification of, you know, how less you sleep. Like it’s almost a competition that you know, “I was in office till 1am.” And then the other person goes, “just 1am? I was here the whole night.” In the beginning. It, you know, I, I was like, How is this suddenly normal? And then the only answer that you get in return is that you get paid enough. As if money is the answer to every single problem of life. It is in many ways. But it just felt that, you know, I, I, I was not in a position to even complain because I was getting paid a lot. And I was getting paid a lot! I wouldn’t deny that.

But every time I would try to even have a conversation with my colleagues that how are we, how is this even normal? Like my brain is no longer, I cannot work like this. ” Oh, you just suck it up. And you know, it’s for the money. And if you are too tired, then just blow it up over the weekend.” And that not only was, is that an unhealthy cycle, it did in no way help me. Because my needs on a day to day basis were not being met. And over a period of time, it just, it just became like the load was so much more that no matter what I did over the weekend, it was, I was never going to feel destressed, so as to say,

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, exactly. It’s never, you know, you, you come back to work and you’re right back in the environment where you were. And it’s almost like maybe you never had a break in the first place. Yeah. Wow.

Shayonee Dasgupta: Yeah. And there’s a lot of passive aggressive behavior. Lawyers are not, honestly, the most nice. I think it’s, it maybe just comes with the work stress or what, but some people will unnecessarily be very unpleasant to you. They will not, you know, what they can just say in clear, like five words, they will not say. They’ll expect you to just read their mind. And like I said in the beginning, that itself has been a challenge for me, because I can’t understand what what people want from me, unless you just tell me in so many words.

So it all just added up. Looking back, I know that, why, the way it all ended, why it ended, it was not just an overnight thing. It was a buildup of so many years, so many transactions, so many nights that I had not slept that one day my body had to just give in, and say enough is enough now. Can’t do any more.

Carolyn Kiel: Wow. So, so you got to that point where you, you burned out and you wound up leaving the field of law and seeking help. So yeah. Tell me about that. Tell me about like seeking help after that and how did that lead you to a diagnosis of autism and ADHD?

Shayonee Dasgupta: So initially, when I I had just quit, I just knew that I had to see a mental health professional. Like it was a no brainer for me. It’s not like someone else made the appointment. I made the appointment, I took myself to the clinic, and I said that I know something, you know, is wrong. And I started right from the beginning.

What I initially noticed was that no one in fact gave me the time to really, you know, recount all my experiences from childhood. They were very fixed on what the issue seems to be right now. And immediately there was, Oh, you know, this is all anxiety. This is all depression. It was all very like, you know, that that’s all that there is. And since there are no other diagnostic tests, like nobody’s going to test my blood or you know, I’m not going to undergo any MRI. It was just suddenly like I just have a label and I have a diagnosis, and that’s it.

And it was, it was a little jarring in the beginning, I felt that they were not really very keen on understanding the entire picture, but giving me a quick fix that okay, go on medication, it will get better. But since it was my first brush with professional mental health care in India, I was like, Okay, maybe, maybe medicine is the answer to my problem.

But what I realized over time was that medication, therapy, I was very diligent with therapy, I would see my therapist twice a week in the beginning, it all felt that anything that they told me, nobody was understanding the real problem that I was facing. Because I even got, the advice from the therapist would be like, oh, you know, you need to work on a better to do list. And I’m like, it was never the to do list, do you, you know, how do I explain to you? I have a list, but I just can’t like get started on things. So then they would just join the dots and say, oh, that is the depression. And I’m like, okay, but now I’m on medication. So if those symptoms are getting better, why is, you know, and now let’s say I have removed all the stressful tasks from my to do list. Now there are much simpler things to do. Why am I still not able to do them?

And I felt that nobody had answers. I think everybody just looked at, maybe they just look at patients as, you know, a source of. money. So it’s very, the, the consultations are, okay, okay, you know what? We’ll take care of this in the, in the next appointment. So you just go home with those medicines, with some advice from your therapist. And you are like, I don’t know what’s wrong.

And I, I went through the, you know, like I started with the medication and therapy, then I was like, maybe it’s my diet, maybe it’s exercise. I went through that, that whole, you know, let us, you know, let’s have a more holistic view towards life. But nothing I did gave me that one, you know, I never had that feeling that, okay, yes, this seems to be the problem all along. And I had almost given up and I was, you know, I had told my husband that it is, it’s just this bizarre sort of, you know, something happened and my life has changed. I’m not the person that I used to be. I have known all along something was not okay, but somehow I was able to keep up with the demands. And now I no longer can.

And around the pandemic, I was speaking to someone who was you know, looking for people who are enjoying the experience of, you know, not interacting with people and not sort of, you know, having that social pressure is not there. And during that conversation, based on whatever I was telling this, this friend of mine, later, she reached out to me and said, “you know, there’s so much that I could relate to from what you told me and have you ever considered the possibility that you could be on the spectrum?” And I had no idea. It was all completely new information for me. And initially I was like, I I don’t know and I, because I was so tired of the, of this whole, you know, having to, I changed doctors when I was not getting the results. So every time I would go in and I would think that they would have the answer, they would shut me down. They would give me a new label or they would just give me a new, new prescription. I was really tired and I was like, do I even want to go down this path again?

But I took a lot of time to just read up and explore. And I got onto YouTube, Reddit to hear it from people, you know, what it was like, what sort of experiences are they having. And the more I read, I was like, wow, now it was a lightbulb moment that suddenly, so many things were making sense. And I could actually, you know, read about people having very, very similar experiences, almost like I was reading my own story.

And that is when I, I decided that, okay, it is still, I mean, it’s, it just gave me enough, I would say motivation to pursue a diagnosis. Because I was at that stage I had, I had completely checked out from my life and I was like, I don’t know, something is wrong and I’ll never know what, what the real reason.

So that is the process from the, you know, the struggle with general, like, mental health issue as an umbrella to specifically pursuing a diagnosis of whether or not I was on the spectrum.

Carolyn Kiel: Wow. So once you started sort of doing your own research and exploration and saying like, oh, I think that this might be what’s causing all the challenges in my life, potentially it could be, you know, I might be autistic. I might have ADHD. How did you go about getting a diagnosis? Because I know in the United States, it can be a challenge as an adult to even find a provider who will, you know, give you a diagnosis or take you through the process to see if if that’s something that applies to you.

Shayonee Dasgupta: It’s the same here. It’s not the easiest thing to do. I think I just got lucky that the person I was speaking to, she was almost about to complete her, you know, the assessment process. So as soon as I, then I reach out to her and I was like, “you know what, now I have done my research. I am willing to explore more.” She passed on the contacts and I, I set up the appointments myself.

And I say this because previously, whichever mental health professional I went to, there was no mention of neurodivergence at all! Like these are all new terms that I’m discovering as a patient. And I am doing all the work of, you know, whether or not I should be screened. So the only good thing was that because of the pandemic, the organization that I contacted, they had started this online assessment process. Otherwise, their offices are in Delhi and they usually are after a, you know, initial assessment over the phone, they ask people to come over to Delhi. But because of the pandemic, they were agreeable to do the whole process. online.

And I contacted them, I set up a, you know, initial appointment with the, with the person. And I think for the first time, I was able to take them from my childhood to the, you know, the circumstances that I was in, without like someone constantly jumping in and saying, “Okay, that is, that what you’re describing is just depression.” And I felt, suddenly I felt so validated, like, I was like, you know, I don’t know what the result of the assessment will be, but just to be able to speak so freely and you know, to be able to actually, that person was not judging me for the kind of struggles that I was having on a daily basis. It felt really free.

And then they, they started the process, which involved a questionnaire for me. Then my husband also had to fill up a similar questionnaire. And they had told me in the beginning that they wanted my parents to be involved because, or someone who has seen me in the early years around age five, six.

And I, even though I share a good relationship with my parents, I couldn’t tell them that, you know, this was for for like, I was undergoing an assessment for autism. They were aware of the fact that I was seeing psychiatrists and therapists and I had my struggles. So I told them, I’m just seeing a new therapist. It’s a new approach. And that involves talking to parents. And I made up some story. Because I was so, that is the amount of stigma that I have and that is the condition. So I was like, “you know, they’ll ask some very specific questions about my childhood. And since you’re the only people who can answer those questions, you need to get on this, this call.”

And it started from there. And it was a extensive process that I think lasted for about four months once I had finished the written assessment and my husband had also sent his assessment. They had interviews with me, with my parents, different, different sort of conversations each time we spoke.

And December of 2021, I think I started the process around maybe August, September, and in December 2021, they finally told me. Like I had my last call scheduled and the evaluator was like yeah, this is, this is it. Like, this is what you need to know.

And it was, I mean, it was just a, it was a very surreal moment, I would say. I mean, there was, I think a part of my brain was prepared to hear that it’s not, you’re not on the spectrum. Because I was already thinking that if, if I discover that I’m not on the spectrum, then what explains the way things are going in my life? So the other part was like really wishing that I really hope I get an answer this time.

That’s how, that’s how it was.

Carolyn Kiel: Wow. Yeah, as you’re telling me your experience, a lot of those feelings and experiences going through the diagnosis process sound so familiar to me. I think I was doing, I was going through it around the same time, actually, as, as you are. And yeah, those feelings of like, I’m hoping I get an answer, like, I’m hoping. In some ways, you’re, you’re hoping that you get validated because you’ve done all this research. I’m like, oh, this could be the answer. And I’d be so excited to know what the issue is. And then other parts are like, well, but maybe it’s not this and maybe I’m, it’s, well, for me, it’s like, maybe it’s like all in my head and I, I just like convincing myself of something, but then you wind up getting the answer.

And I don’t know, for me, it was like a mixture of emotions over time. So I don’t know what it was like for you, you know, getting the diagnosis, having that initial relief of, okay, this is finally it. But then after that, as you have time to process, did your feelings change about it over time?

Shayonee Dasgupta: I think it was, it was a mix of, I mean, the first emotion was relief just to know that, okay, this is like, there’s some finality to the whole process. But immediately after that I started thinking that, you know, because I had done all the reading, did I, you know, deliberately answer the assessment or appear a certain way that would lead the evaluator to feel that I’m, I’m autistic? And I went through all of that, that, you know, did I, did I appear too, too much? Was it, you know, was it, was I, was I fooling them? Were they not really invested in the process? So I, that was, it was like, you know, I would, some days I would wake up and accept the answer and other days I would constantly question and question the whole process, that you know, whether it was even conducted in the in the right manner or not. And I I struggled with that pretty much whole I think the beginning of 2022 that was the only thing that that kind of you know, it played on my mind heavily. That because, and it was so, it was so bizarre that I really thought that if I found out that I was autistic, I would suddenly have answers to a lot of questions, but all it did was like a floodgate of new questions now coming up.

And I would constantly wonder and I remember I was, you know, I would go on Reddit and search like that, you know, If you have a relatively, you know, okay, problem free sort of a childhood, adulthood growing up, and then suddenly things are going haywire, are there other people? And I was very desperate for that answer, that how is it that for so many years I was able to do this, and suddenly I was not?

And in fact I, I in fact spoke to the evaluator once more after the official assessment was over. And they explained to me that you know there was a structure you were operating you know? You as, as a kid you didn’t really have too much on your plate apart from going to school. Everything else was taken care of. And slowly slowly that structure is going away. And you know, you are being pushed into an environment where, and that’s the expectation that now you have been given all the tools and you should be able to operate independently. Except that that’s not the case with, with with folks who are neurodivergent.

And some of it made sense. Some of it, I would say, it was not that very neatly, you know, packed stages of grief, but it was this something. It was like this, so many emotions altogether, which I later also knew that it was, you know, the autistic grief of even coming to terms with your identity as an autistic person. It was not a linear journey in in any, at any stage, I would say.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, yeah, so much, it sounds so familiar. Yeah, and I think people don’t realize, you know, when they’re getting a diagnosis or when they’re about to get a diagnosis, or even just people looking in from the outside, kind of see it in a very simplified way of like, okay, I’m going to get diagnosis and then I’m going to have all the answers to everything that happened in my life. And then, and it doesn’t, it doesn’t really always work that way.

And then sometimes as an adult, it’s like, okay, great. Now I know what the issue is. Now what? So now you have to find a therapist or just supports on your own that can help you. And so you’re kind of left to figure out a lot on your own, even after getting that diagnosis.

Shayonee Dasgupta: Yeah. And I, it was almost that I had to, I started looking at life as now I have to relearn living life as an autistic person. Because honestly, I have only tried to not live like an autistic person all this while. That was my, my first realization, that I have just developed a lot of skills or whatever my coping mechanisms to fit into something that I was not meant, you know, I was not fit for to begin with.

So, In order to do that, and I was very clear that I need to see a therapist who will understand this. I did not want to, you know, just end up with a conventional therapist. Because I knew that the, it’s, it’s so hard to even get psychiatrists to take a autism assessment seriously, which I discovered as, you know, as as time went. So I was very determined that this therapist has to be someone who understands what this is.

So there was a period of time when I had, I had no support. I was, you know, my psychiatrists were not willing to accept the diagnosis. My previous therapists were also not willing to accept that, you know, they were like, “no, no, this is this over diagnosed something.” And I was completely, there was just no support. And that was a really tough period. Because I, it felt that someone gave me the answers, but then just snatched away, you know, like just when I thought that I can finally find out how to live this life, you know, that, that life jacket is suddenly snatched away.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. It’s like, here’s the answer. Like, good luck with your life!

Shayonee Dasgupta: Yeah.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Wow.

Shayonee Dasgupta: So true.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. So, yeah. So you had to find those supports and basically, you know, change your life. And you even wound up in a new career. So now you do freelance writing. So how did you wind up choosing freelance writing as your new career?

Shayonee Dasgupta: I think writing is something that I started after I had quit and I had a few months of rest and relaxation, as my psychiatrist would tell me, to just bounce back. And I found writing to be cathartic. And initially I was just writing a lot like, you know, my thoughts, my feelings and my whole struggle, everything. But as soon as like the, you know, the savings were also kind of drying up and I was like, I need to do something.

But it was very, very interesting. I would say that I almost had a very visceral reaction every time I thought of going back to a law firm, it was almost like, you know, I just wanted to throw up. I felt so nauseous that I took that as a signal from my body that, you know, nothing doing it. I cannot go back to that.

And it is difficult to restart a career suddenly after a certain age, because you don’t have like, you know, you, you’ve trained to do certain things, you have that degree. And there’s a lot of, there are a lot of, the barriers in India are such that they’re always looking for a very specific degree for whatever it is that you want to pursue. It, it doesn’t matter whether you have an interest in it, or you can prove otherwise on the job, learn on the job, nothing of that sort matters.

So I thought that, you know, writing was something where I was still able to market myself because, you know, that’s how I got clients. I told them that, see, I have been writing, just very different things. When I was a lawyer, I was writing and drafting, we call it drafting in, in the right, that’s the right term. I was drafting contracts. But research is something that has been my bread and butter. So this is just research and writing in a different format.

So I chose it, A because the entry barrier was relatively low and B because I honestly at that point needed some income to start. Because it was almost getting embarrassing that you know, I was like, no, no, I cannot, even though I was married, I was no longer dependent on my parents, I was like, no, I can’t ask my, I can’t dip into the joint finances. I need to whatever this journey is, I have to do it on my own. And I needed the money.

And I was not that, I did speak to, you know, alike fields around law, if there was any research opportunity, I was willing to even go in as an intern. But I felt that nothing really was working out. Maybe I was just getting impatient. So, that is how the transition happened.

But I just knew that law was not going to happen. I, at that point, I didn’t know that writing was going to be the career going forward. But I definitely knew that I could no longer go back and suddenly become a lawyer in a law firm. Because like I said, it was almost a, like an instant reaction. I would just feel sick that, you know, and it got to a point where I couldn’t even meet people I knew from that life, because it would just bring back everything for no fault of theirs, of course, but it was severe. It was just, I had to just relive everything. And I was like, you know what? I can’t do this either. I need to, literally, it was a rebirth of thoughts and relearning and doing everything.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. And that’s, that’s interesting that your interest in research and, and, and that type of that you cultivated as a lawyer kind of led you to, okay, well, I can use my interest and my skills in research to write on other topics, things like that.

So, yeah. So today like what’s your favorite type of. writing to do? Whether it’s topics or, you know, different media, things like that.

Shayonee Dasgupta: I actually enjoy writing a lot on health and wellness issues, particularly women’s health issue, because there’s so much that I have discovered through my own journey that is not really, you know, it’s not just the information is not too easily available, that connecting those dots is something that really excites me. But I, when I started, because I was so new to the field, I was open to pretty much writing on whatever came my way, because at that point, it was all about survival. But as I got into the thick of things, and I figured, you know, what interests me more, I figured that mental health, intersectionality, gender, health, these are the kind of things that I want to write about, or even my neurodiver, you know, my struggles with being an autistic woman in India, that getting diagnosed with ADHD a year later. Because once the autism diagnosis was over, I was like, that then I kind of had a confidence that, okay, maybe there is some missing piece of puzzle still. But that seemed like a more straightforward route for me. It was the journey from everything to finding out that I was autistic, which was more complicated in my case.

So I like to write about these issues, because a lot of it is actually also coming from my lived experience.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, that’s great. And I guess how, so clearly you, you took some time to, you know, get started in freelance writing and it sounds like you have kind of got some, you, you figured out how to navigate that world in terms of finding opportunities and finding the things that you really enjoy writing about.

How did you find that your career as a writer is, is kind of a, like a really good fit for what you’re, what you’re doing right now?

Shayonee Dasgupta: There’s more control on my schedule and there’s less social interaction. I work from home. My coworkers are my two dogs. So it’s like the perfect work environment to have. So that I think really helped. But at the same time, the kind of market that we operate in, there is again, the person who is out there networking, marketing themselves, attending events, obviously gets more opportunities. That is something that I, I, still did struggle with. I’m not the most, you know, I, I land opportunities, but I’m not very good at networking. So I have to then go the extra mile mile of actually you know, cold, cold emailing people. Or if I, if I suddenly discover something on LinkedIn, I come across a call for, you know, a writer, I immediately send in my CV. Because I don’t have that native network of contacts that I can dip into. Neither can I even market myself like that. So that continues to be a struggle.

But what I really like is that because I have more control over my schedule and the traditional idea of productivity that the day has to start at, you know, whatever 8am and then you just work, work, work. This is how you do it. You just take a break in between. Those conditions no longer apply to my life. And that is what I enjoy. I think that is why it is a it’s a good fit because it in some way it meets my needs as an autistic person. Because there are days when I don’t switch on, and I don’t have to force myself to switch on. And I can just take that as a, as a easy day or maybe not work maybe the first half, start work in the second half. So those flexibilities is really what makes freelance writing a better fit for me.

And it is such a different world from law. Finances, I mean, it still doesn’t pay me as much as I used to make as a lawyer, for sure. But I do not go to bed with a constant dread of I don’t want to live my life, which I think was for me the lowest point. That, I didn’t even want to be alive, then what is even the point of having so much money in my bank account?

So I’m still figuring it out. I’m every two months I, you know, I kind of, sometimes I get into the thick of things and my writing business kind of takes off. But then last year there was a point where I just had, I had a complete shutdown and it was a burnout, because I was actually overworking myself. So I think now I have to also very realistically set goals that these are, this is what I can do. This is what, this is how much I can do. And I need to operate within that. So there’s been a lot of realization and learning on different levels, not just about myself, but generally a more intentional living. That, you know, how, how much do I want to work? You know, even in this new career, I don’t want to have that commitment of, I’m going to be working for 16 hours. Because I know that will not come naturally, and then I will have to pay the, a very heavy price and then just be out of commission.

Carolyn Kiel: Oh yeah, absolutely. And since making this career transition and getting your diagnosis and learning more about yourself, have you found it easier to kind of accept yourself now knowing that you are neurodivergent?

Shayonee Dasgupta: It’s again, there’s no straight answer to this. Before I met my current therapist who is neurodivergent herself, I was, it took me a while to even understand the breadth of, you know, what it means to be an autistic person.

Right now, I think I’m at a stage where I have definitely developed more self compassion, which was not there right in the beginning. Because when I got the diagnosis, in my mind, I just wanted the answers to just, you know, just be there and everything to work out in my favor. I didn’t anticipate that getting the diagnosis is only tip of the iceberg, because then you have to now discover a whole new world and figure out what works for you.

So post diagnosis, I have actually learned more about myself. I’ve been able to give names to, you know, things that I struggled with. Like, I didn’t know masking, I didn’t know I was scripting. But now I know what what was going on. I have definitely become more aware of, of, of my body. It’s like I’m actually very concerned about the signals that my body is sending. I place that above everything else. So overall, it may look that you know, I’m too concerned about myself at all times, but it helps. Because otherwise, I have no other mechanism to know that, where am I headed? What is, you know, what is not okay? So I’m doing like constant check ins or when I know that, you know, I have over socialized, then I know that I need to take a break.

So those things have only come because now I have had that, post diagnosis, I have had a lot of sessions with my therapist where we have just sort of worked out and it was like teaching a child how to live, except that the child is a full grown adult.

So I would tell my therapist that sometimes I meet people and then I meet, when I meet in the beginning, I’m very anxious, but then I’ll, you know, I’ll talk, talk, talk, and then I come home and I don’t want to do anything for like the next two days. And then I understood that there’s also a certain amount of burnout that comes with that added pressure of socializing, because then I’m masking a lot more, because I’m constantly trying to be an interesting person, not offend them, ask the right questions, say politically correct things. So now I know where to kind of, you know, hit the, like, I will meet people, but I know that I can almost sense it, that it’s not, you know, now I’m kind of done. And then I politely excuse myself from those gatherings. And that would have not happened had I not had all of this, the whole picture. When I, when I think about it, it’s just knowing that I’m autistic was not enough. I had to actually be able to, you know, put the pieces together where therapy has, has helped a lot.

And just, you know, I’m. reading the resources, Reddit, YouTube. I’m constantly trying to understand how other neurodivergent individuals are navigating through life and then applying that and trying to find out the answers.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. I feel like that self compassion is maybe that’s like almost like a first step in terms of like, okay, how do I go forward and really start accepting myself? Because it’s like giving yourself permission to not have to live up to the typical standards of, I don’t know, the working world or particular type of field.

And yeah, and I think it’s great that your therapist is, is neurodivergent. I think that at a minimum, like neurodiversity affirming therapy is helpful or just having a therapist or a clinician who understands that. And, you know, it’s like the difference between the therapists you were seeing beforehand who were probably just like, “Oh, you know, let’s address this specific problem. Like just get a planner and you’ll be fine!” It’s like, no, this is, you know, neurodiversity affirming might be like, “you know, maybe you, maybe you shouldn’t be doing like 25 things at once. You don’t have to. And how can we kind of, you know, restructure things so that it works for you.” Yeah.

Shayonee Dasgupta: And it also helps because the Indian society such that there’s so much of emphasis on doing well, having a great career, earning, you know, a certain amount of money, having a good life and making your parents proud and the whole extended family proud that when you take a step back like this, I think my parents overall made peace with it, but I think like the extended family, they had, everybody had so many opinions that “she quit her job as a, as a lawyer, she’s only sitting at home” and so many iterations of that, that, you know, just, just therapy is really that outlet. And of course, knowing other people who similarly struggled. That, it’s okay, it’s okay to not be able to fit that. And that doesn’t automatically translate into the biggest failure of my life, because that is how it had started to feel at a point where, you know, it all became like, Oh, my God, like, you know, I am the only one who was not able to live life as per the expectations of the society.

And with therapy, with time, I am slowly trying to get to the point where I’m trying to tune out that noise that okay, you may think that, you know, I’m a failure, but in my eyes, I have had a very different journey. And, you know, it is, it is also like, I’m, I’m grateful to my body, to my mind, to my brain that they have all been able to come together and still, you know, hold me through this entire ordeal.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Yeah. Navigating those family expectations and then just the expectations of society in general is, is really, really difficult when you can’t fit exactly into that narrow mold of what success is supposed to look like, allegedly.

Shayonee Dasgupta: And it’s a double whammy when you are a woman, right? Because it’s, it’s so much. You also have to be like this domestic goddess. You have to be a great daughter in law. You have to be a great wife. You have to be a great daughter. You have to be excellent at work. And it almost felt that, you know, I was like, Oh my God, you know, I’m a feminist and I’m not breaking the glass ceiling. And I’m actually prioritizing my needs and you know, I’m staying home and I’m taking so much. There’s so many conflicting opinions, basically, that I had to, at some point, I was like, this is this is just, you know, I can’t do this. I need to have my own value system, my own principles that I believe in and structure my life around that.

Because I felt that I was just getting pulled in so many directions. And I constantly felt that, am I doing enough? Am I becoming lazy? Am I not becoming lazy? No wonder that, you know, that women are mostly missed because there’s so much expectation at all times to be that, you know, that, that picture perfect something or, or the other at all times that we are all just trying to fit into the mold.

So. I think that’s why, you know, no wonder I was so exhausted all these years because subconsciously I’m always trying to be that someone. And it always felt it was like this little elusive little thing I could just never hit, you know, that, that that image of myself that I had in my head. And now it seems a little liberating where I’m giving myself the freedom to make a new image and not have a set notion of, you know, how it is supposed to be, that maybe my life is about having all these experiences and not having like a big snazzy title and, you know, lots of money and a fancy house. And that is also a valid way to live life that doesn’t make me a failure.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Yeah, I’ve always thought that, you know, as I talk to more and more adults who are neurodivergent, I feel like, seeing adults that really have found ways to live their best life and define success in their own ways, you know, as autistic people, as autistic women, as people with ADHD, like that in itself is really revolutionary. Like that is just carving out your own success and not having to force yourself to be someone who you really can never be in order to try to fit into society’s expectations. And that is not, it is not easy. It’s not just as, as easy as saying like, “well, I’m gonna do my own thing.” Like, well, maybe some people can. But from the people I talk to, it is a multi-year journey. So it’s, it’s just, I love seeing that. I love seeing what people define as success and, and how they, how they achieve it in different ways.

Shayonee Dasgupta: Sometimes for me, like the day when my executive functioning skills are even at like a 60, 65%, I feel so happy that I’m able to do some basic tasks and, you know, kind of get them out of my way. Because I have had days where getting out of the bed was impossible. Personal hygiene had gone for a toss. I was literally eating ice cream for breakfast. So even when I’m doing very, very, things that may look insignificant to the person, you know, from outside, you know, “she’s just making breakfast,” but it’s a huge deal for me, because that means that, you know, I’ve been able to execute so many things and not get like sidetracked because I also have that issue because of my ADHD. Be focused on it and be able to do it and then move on to something and you know, not get stuck. Because that paralysis, that inertia, these are very real struggles that, that still show up on, on some days. So the days that I can overcome them, I consider all of them as, you know, like markers of success.

And that’s why I keep telling myself that how my life looks to other people cannot be, you know, my parameter to decide whether or not it’s a happy life, whether I’m successful in life or not. So I would say the diagnosis actually helped me to in a way become a more intentional person. I’m more in touch with like the ground reality of my living, as opposed to putting out an image or hustling because that’s what we are all supposed to do. And then I also feel like an outlier at times because I can’t, not many people can relate to what I tell them. So, which means that my community is only now of other neurodivergent individuals because they realize those struggles.

So it’s interesting, I would say.

Carolyn Kiel: Wow. Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree with that. So yeah. Shayonee, it’s been great talking with you today. How can people get in touch with you if they want to learn more about your writing?

Shayonee Dasgupta: They can reach me through LinkedIn. My LinkedIn profile is public and you can add the link. So if anybody’s interested, my writing portfolio is there. I also wrote a personal essay about my entire diagnosis process and everything that’s also there because I am told that that has helped many people even start their, their journey. So that’s how they can know more about me. And my email address is on my LinkedIn profile, so they can reach out to me directly for work or other, you know, if anybody just wants to have a chat about. Because I know how difficult this is. So it is always, I’d be, I’d be very happy to help someone else who’s on the, on this same page.

And it’s, and thank you so much, firstly, for even having me and allowing me to just, I don’t know if I like stuck to all, all the right things or not, because I tend to get the, I tend to digress and get sidetracked. But everything is like a, it’s a feature. It’s not a bug. That’s how I have made peace with it.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Well, I really appreciate you sharing your story and, you know, I could probably talk with you for another hour, but I know it’s getting really late where you are in your time zone! So yeah, I’ll let you go soon.

As we, as we close out, is there anything else that you’d like our listeners to know or anything they can help or support you with?

Shayonee Dasgupta: I think what people need to understand is that firstly, invisible disabilities are just as real as the visible ones. And there is no look of a neurodivergent person, because I have got this so much that you don’t look autistic, or you can talk well, or you look put together, so you can’t have ADHD. These are just, you know, these are your stereotypes that you think that people have to fit into, but that is not how it goes.

And self diagnosis is valid. And if someone is coming to you with this, the fact that they have done this research and they have read up and they feel that, you know, they may have ADHD or they may be on the spectrum or there are various other types of neurodivergence out there. Do not, like the first reaction shouldn’t be to invalidate them. And this, I would request the healthcare professionals as well as like the actual, you know, parents, caregivers, spouse, partner, friends, whoever they are.

And, and accommodations, they help everyone. Like, I keep, I was just having a conversation with, with this friend who, whose workplace is not willing to give her these accommodations such as working from home full time. And it is just appalling that these are things that help everyone in the system. And they just make everything more accessible to neurodivergent folks. So, yeah. Just, just think about it. Especially in the Indian context, because the awareness about, generally mental health awareness is very poor and neurodivergence is definitely not part of everyone’s vocabulary. So I hope that whoever is, whoever will listen to this will make an effort in that direction.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Wonderful. Well, yeah. Thanks again, Shayonee. It’s been great talking with you and thanks so much for sharing your story today on my show.

Shayonee Dasgupta: Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. It was lovely talking to you.

Carolyn Kiel: Thanks for listening to Beyond 6 Seconds. Please help me spread the word about this podcast. Share it with a friend, give it a shout out on your social media, or write a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast player. You can find all of my episodes and sign up for my free newsletter at Beyond6seconds.net. Until next time.