Episode 170: An autistic Christian experience – with Miya Sae

The episode transcript is below.

Carolyn Kiel: Welcome to Beyond 6 Seconds, the podcast that goes beyond the six second first impression to share the extraordinary stories of neurodivergent people. I’m your host, Carolyn Kiel.

Thanks for joining me for today’s episode. My guest today will be talking about a topic we haven’t yet covered on Beyond 6 Seconds – neurodivergence and religion. Or, more specifically, one woman’s personal journey as an autistic Christian.

My guest Miya Sae is a blogger and aspiring author who writes candidly about how her views of her autism and her Christian faith have changed over the course of her life, and how those two critical parts of her identity have intersected and sometimes conflicted with each other. Unfortunately, for a while she was ashamed of some of her autistic characteristics because she believed they made her a bad Christian. I’ll let Miya share the details on that, and how she came to realize that this isn’t true. Now she publicly shares her experiences as an autistic Christian to combat shame – so that other autistic people don’t feel alone or ashamed if they are struggling with these same thoughts. Whether or not you’re a religious person, Miya’s story of self-acceptance is really powerful, and sheds light on topics that aren’t discussed much in public.

If you enjoy thought-provoking stories about neurodiversity, then why not take a moment to follow this podcast on your favorite podcast app? Take a second now to click that follow or subscribe button on the app you’re using to listen. If you’re listening on my website, you can sign up for my free newsletter to get notified anytime there’s a new episode coming out! And if you’re already following this podcast, thank you for that, I’m so glad you’re back to listen to another episode!

And now, let’s get to my conversation with Miya!

Today I’m speaking with Miya Sae. Miya is an autistic Christian, blogger and aspiring author. Diagnosed at age 26, she’s become an autism supporter and strives to bring hope and encouragement to other misunderstood neurodivergent Christians like herself. Miya, welcome to the podcast.

Miya Sae: Hi, thanks for having me.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Glad to have you here. So I would love to hear more about the story behind your autism diagnosis. So like when did you first realize that you might be either neurodivergent or maybe just different in some way?

Miya Sae: Yeah, so, well, I guess just a preface, because I always get asked this within seconds of people meeting me, is that I don’t have an accent. It’s a speech impediment. you’ll hear at times I can’t do anything about it. I assume it to be like due to autism. I don’t know. But yeah, no accent.

So anyways, to answer the question. I say I was undiagnosed until adulthood, because I don’t actually know if I was diagnosed as a kid, cuz I got a lot of mixed messages. Like I would often be pulled aside and lectured on why I need to stop being weird. And one of those times, I remember being told I was tested and diagnosed with autism when I was little. And they were just kinda like, “Hey, like, I’m sorry to tell you, but like you have this horrible disease that makes you quiet and weird, but you still need to stop being quiet and weird.” and I was just like, like, I didn’t even remember being tested, what they were talking about, and I didn’t even know what autism was. But then the story kind of kept changing over time. Like sometimes I had something else and sometimes I didn’t have anything, so I don’t know.

What I do know is that growing up, I only ever heard negative things about autism. The impressions I got was like, just, I literally thought that autism was just like a fancy medical way of calling someone stupid and socially incompetent. Like, that’s it. And there was all the end autism now propaganda going on. Like even at school, they’d be doing fundraisers and say like, “Hey, you guys should go to this thing to end autism, tell your families! Like, no more autistic kids!”

And at the time I was just kind of like, “okay. Yeah. Like, absolutely. All the smart adults say that autism’s bad. So that means it’s bad.” And like, it wasn’t until a couple years ago when I started talking to actually autistic people, when I suspected it about myself. Talking to them, as opposed to people trying to speak on our behalf, that I learned like, oh, autism isn’t evil. It’s not just a side thing. It’s not something that needs to be exterminated. Like it’s literally, it makes us who we are. It’s our whole brains. The people who were saying like they’re like completely content and even proud to be autistic. And I was just like shook. What do you mean it doesn’t need a cure? Like, what is this?

And so I think because of all the stigma, for a long time in adulthood, I was kind of in denial and didn’t wanna admit to people or myself that I was autistic or suspected that I was. And so, talking to people and doing things like reading memoirs by autistic people, I think helped me to kind of like come to terms and eventually seek a diagnosis.

Carolyn Kiel: I remember growing up, it was very similar narratives and information that I remember hearing about autism is that, you know, it was a very scary thing, very misunderstood. And, and that whole rhetoric that you’re mentioning is really damaging. It’s almost as if like people don’t think that all these autistic children that everyone is constantly talking about, they grow up and become adults and then like, they kind of disappear. Where do they go? It’s like, no, we’re all, we’re all here. And we’re all listening to what you guys are saying about us. So, yeah, it’s quite a revelation. Absolutely.

So that’s interesting that that led you to learn more and read more about it and then get a, a diagnosis around age 26. So when you finally got the official diagnosis, did it surprise you? Like what kind of reaction did you have to that?

Miya Sae: The diagnosis itself was kind of just like a side note, because I had a hunch and it was just kind of like the whole process like leading up to it that was I think the most impactful. Because I wasn’t always like who I am now, before I was a Christian, because in my BC days, I was just so hateful and angry and miserable and just hated people passionately. It went beyond typical teenage angst. Like I was someone who just wished bad things, even death upon people. I was kind of sadistic. I wanted to fight people and like, I think if I had been gutsy enough and less socially anxious, I might have been someone who did get into fist fights and been a bully. So I was just so angry at the world and so mad that I didn’t understand why I was different than everybody else, and why I didn’t have the social abilities and capacity that everyone else did.

And so like, I mean, they say when you come to Christ, you become transformed from the inside out. And that’s what happened to me, like later on. But until then I was just burning with all this internal rage and sadness, and just hated everyone. With the exception being my internet friends at the time, which was kind of like where my whole faith testimony begins. And I can come back to that in a minute.

Skipping ahead a few years, I experienced a lot of dramatic changes socially, after I encountered God and became a Christian of my own will. Obviously like stopped hating people in life because God changed my heart, but also immediately and dramatically just leveled up like crazy in the social department. I was, you know, not perfect obviously, but I was suddenly able to go out and make and keep friends and talk to people naturally without feeling like I was gonna die and go out and do social things without being forced and actually enjoyed it. And so it was like crazy. And so with the limited knowledge about autism I had at the time, I kind of just came to the conclusion that like, “oh, because I can do these things now, that means I’m not autistic anymore because God healed me! Yeah!” And like, I went almost a decade honestly believing that and telling people that, which now I feel so bad about, because it obviously promotes harmful ideology. So I apologize on behalf of my past self. But I was just so blissfully unaware and unknowingly intensely masking for a decade because that’s what society expected me to do. But also just convincing myself that it was actually who I was, like all my quote unquote bad qualities was just a thing of the past and gone forever. Like I just kind of thought autism was just like a side thing, like a personality add on that could be kicked like a bad habit. Like I had no idea how all encompassing of the brain it is. I didn’t even know about things like sensory sensitivity and stimming until way later.

But then a couple years after college, I started having my downfall as it were. Found out later it was autistic burnout, but I didn’t know that because I still thought I was quote unquote healed. But like, I was just like struggling socially again, and just getting overwhelmed so easily by everything. I didn’t have it in me to do social things anymore. And even at my job, I got to the point where all the times I could hardly talk or just put words into sentences and make them come out and couldn’t make eye contact. And I would shut down anytime the phone rang that someone needed me. It was like all my short lived quick wit and talkative nature and social energy and go-getter attitude just completely died. And I was just like, “what is going on? What is happening to me?”

And it became like a lot of self, like heavy self abuse mentally. Like, oh my gosh, like I’m just so stupid and lazy and selfish and weak. All these things I’ve been told throughout my life for just being this way, like I’m, I’m not trying hard enough. Like I can’t anymore. Like I actually can’t. I wanna be helpful to people and dependable, but now I can’t even hold simple conversation and it’s all this executive dysfunction. And I’m becoming apathetic, so I’m evil for that. Like I’m a failure. I don’t deserve to call myself a follower of Christ. Like, even church stuff now kills me. Like I just wanna hide. I can’t let anyone see me like this. Like why? Like, why, why is this even happening? What did I do? I should know better. That’s like what it always comes back to is like, I should know better than to allow this stuff to be happening. And I’m an abomination for quote unquote, allowing it to happen anyways.

I was just like, oh, I just need a new job and a change of pace. Like, that’ll fix it! But then like three jobs later, I was still the same. So I had to start asking questions. Like, am I autistic again? Have I always been, but I was just faking it and lying to myself? Like maybe, maybe God took some aspects of it away, but not all of it. Like, I don’t know, like I just need to go get checked out. And so yeah, I went like, did the thing, got a diagnosis. And I, it was just kind of like, okay, I guess I’m autistic. It wasn’t like the magical epiphany moment that a lot of people seem to have, at least like in the moment, but like slowly it started catching up to me. Until finally it was just like, oh, so that explains my whole life! Like, that’s insane! And so since then, it’s just kind of been this journey of like, figuring out what this means in the context of my faith.

Carolyn Kiel: And that’s amazing. And so much of what you’re describing is so familiar. The masking and then, the performing really well and, and. And like, you know, just doing all the things that you’re supposed to do and then, and then burnout, because it’s just not sustainable. And then the confusion. And especially since, you know, we just didn’t have a lot of good information about autism and what it really was. And just trying to figure out what’s going on is really, really such a challenge.

You’ve had a, a really fascinating journey with, it sounds like sort of an evolution of your relationship with God or with Christ. When you first became a Christian, was it like one particular moment that was like a big religious epiphany for you? Or how did that come about?

Miya Sae: Yeah, it started off with a big moment, but it was also stuff leading up to it. Like I kind of grew up in a Christian home and we kind of went to church sometimes, but like, I didn’t know what anybody was talking about and I didn’t care cuz it wasn’t interesting to me. But over time, like throughout all the dysfunction at home and all my autism struggles socially, I ended up on the one place that I felt like I belonged, which was the internet, old school social media and chat forums, like older than even I think MySpace maybe. Through that, I was able to make friends finally.

It would kind of like come and go, but there was one individual who I became extremely attached to and just like dependent on for emotional support to an unhealthy level. But to me, she was my best friend in the world. And I was just so proud to finally have a friend who I respected and trusted and who also saw me that way, theoretically. But then like after a couple of years, when I was just like in a really dark place and like extremely emo, she basically kind of dropped a bomb on me, kind of out of the blue, saying like, it was all a lie and that she hates me and has always hated me and wants nothing to do with me anymore. Which to me, kind of felt like the end, like in a way. She was all I had in this life of just being isolated and bullied and just looked down upon by everyone.

And like, I, I do wanna clarify that I’m not trying to throw shade at online friendships cuz I totally stan them and I still have a lot of them, but in this case, I was just completely idolizing this person and expecting her to be my savior basically. But like, I wasn’t a Christian, so I didn’t know that, I didn’t realize I was doing that.

But anyways, after that happened, I was out longboarding, like I often did. And it was my usual, just angry, sad, in despair about everything all the time mindset that I always had about everything, except like times a million this time because of what happened. But then like, while I was out there, I had this sudden shift of all these different thoughts and attitudes that I would’ve never had on my own, just kind of like started coming in and giving me hope and telling me like, you’ve done everything you can to try and save this friendship and to make this lifestyle work, but it’s over, it’s done. And you can keep destroying yourself, trying to make it work when it won’t, or you can turn away from it, get up, walk away from it and follow this better path that’s yours to take if you choose it. And usually I would’ve laughed at that idea. Like no way, have you seen me? Like, I’m incompetent. No one will ever like me and I’ve thrown so much away in my real life. I treated people badly because I thought I didn’t need any of them because I had this one person. I’m not capable of living a normal life outside the internet. That’s just not possible.

But then it was like, as it would turn out, yeah, on my own, I probably couldn’t. But then with God I could, and I did. Even though that sounds so cheesy, but like it’s what happened. Because like, as this was all happening, I had this sudden conviction of like, I need to live my life with God and just seek Him and get to know Him. Like what, what have I been doing this whole time? It was just the sudden realization of like, oh, God, like He made me, He loves me. So like, I want to have a relationship with Him. And so just that day just made that decision. Like, I’m gonna commit to this. I don’t know anything about God, but I wanna change that.

And since then, He just like transformed me so dramatically. Some things obviously naturally took time, but other things were literally immediate overnight and lasting. Like I stopped hating people in life. And my addictions to being sad and pessimistic about everything were just completely gone and I became like a genuinely happy person. And there was like, obviously all the social stuff that led to me thinking autism was gone for a while. But yeah, just like since then, it’s just been, been on this like insane journey with God that like, I would’ve never imagined for myself. I would’ve never imagined possible of like, even just doing basic life things. And yeah, like it’s still going and like always continuing to learn.

Carolyn Kiel: Oh, so it sounds like you really had like a turning point in your thoughts in that, that one time.

Miya Sae: Out of nowhere. Yeah.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah. So then after that, did you become part of a faith community or, or start going to a particular church?

Miya Sae: Not for a couple years. It was kind of a slow, interesting process. It started off just like with me praying a lot. I didn’t even think to read the Bible for a while and like family wasn’t going to church at all by that point. So I was kind of on my own, in a sense. And I actually kind of kept it a secret from people and from family, because I didn’t wanna get bullied for it, cuz I wasn’t yet familiar with that whole concept of being unashamed of your faith and all that. So like when I did start reading the Bible, I kept that a secret too.

But it was kind of cool in that season because it was just me and God. You know, no one was pressuring me, no one was brainwashing me into the faith. I was just doing it and joyfully. And some of it was even kind of instinctive. I was just naturally all day, every day, just praying and thanking God in my head as I went about my business. No one told me to do that. No one told me that you’re supposed to worship God outside of the one hour, once a week on a Sunday type of thing. No one told me to pick up a Bible, but I wanted to, so I could learn about God. And so I dunno, it was just like a cool season.

Carolyn Kiel: That’s really cool. I think everyone’s relationship with God is, is very personal. There’s no one right way to do it. So, that’s really powerful.

Obviously you feel different because your thoughts are changing, so you’re not thinking as many bad thoughts about people. And so you’re changing in that way. But it sounds like at the same time, because you described before becoming more social for a while, when you were masking more effectively. So was that related to finding a deepening faith or did it just sort of happen to coincide at the same time?

Miya Sae: Honestly, I don’t know. I think because of the newfound joy that I had and not being depressed and miserable anymore, it was a lot easier. I wanted to branch out and try new things. But it was different. Because in the past, you know, I had tried that too, as a kid, but was just always crashing and burning at it, I didn’t know how to do it. But somehow, it was just easier. Especially like, by the time I got to college, I somehow became an extravert for a while and was like just doing social things, like constantly all the time. Like it was fueling me, but then that obviously didn’t last.

Carolyn Kiel: As the burnout started to take hold, did you kind of turn to God to ask why, or just try to find answers?

Miya Sae: Yeah. A lot of the stuff that I write about and the message that I try to get across is fighting against like religious shame, which is something that I had picked up a lot over time. Because like, being an autistic Christian just adds this whole other layer, because a lot of traits are often seen as sinful in church culture by a lot of people. For instance, I’m really into things like anime and video games. And like, I think about fictional characters all the time, every day. And I know other people do too, and they just don’t wanna admit it. But for so many years, I thought it was just me, like, at least that I was the only Christian who was this way. And a lot of Christians and leaders will look at that stuff in general and just automatically frown upon it because it doesn’t fit into the common church culture.

But also like, there’s just this idea that if you like something a lot or spend a lot of time on it, then it’s idolatry, which isn’t even like what that means Biblically. Like there’s always potential for things to become that. But like, I held that belief for a long time and it just snowballed into this huge prison that I put myself into, that I thought I wasn’t allowed to do anything that wasn’t like a Christiany activity and I wasn’t allowed to even like, think about non-spiritual stuff, because like, since I’m a big day dreamer, that makes it idolatry too somehow.

And so for a while, I tried to live that way and I couldn’t do it. Like my autistic brain would not let me stop thinking about fictional stuff. No matter how I tried and prayed or had other people pray or like just begged God to take it away. And so I started to just hate myself through that and started having like a lot of spiritual anxiety too. Kind of like, “uh oh, I’m failing to repent of this stuff. Like what if my salvation is canceled?” Which isn’t even a thing.

But, I just kinda like lived in that place of shame for a long time and didn’t realize until later on that like the actual idol that I was clinging to and that a lot of Christians cling to is the quote unquote “ideal good Christian lifestyle.” Instead of, you know, trusting Jesus and the cross, like a lot of us will, you know, try to win God’s favor by doing a bunch of spiritual stuff all the time and not, you know, quote unquote wasting time with other stuff that we think doesn’t matter. When, like in reality, God is present with us at all times and in everything we do. So like, we are always spending time with Him. Like it’s not just when we read the Bible and sing worship songs. Those are obviously good things, but He doesn’t go away when we’re not doing those activities. Like, He’s not confined to them. So it’s like, you know, through things like gratitude and like fixing our hearts on him and like looking at things with a gospel lens, like we still glorify God when we’re playing Pokemon and watching One Piece.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, I would hope that God would want us to celebrate and enjoy the gifts and the talents and interests that He gave us, you know.

Miya Sae: Exactly.

Carolyn Kiel: And you wrote a blog post about special interests or autistic special interests and how that sort of at first you felt really conflicted with your faith and your relationship with God. And then you mentioned having, I think it was a mentor or someone kind of help you rethink that in a different way. After several years of struggling with feeling the special interests were like sinful things, how did your mentor help you see it in a different way?

Miya Sae: Yeah. So my mentor is like the wisest human I’ve ever met in my life, and she’s neurodivergent too, ADHD. And she was the first person to ever tell me that I’m allowed to daydream and have hobbies and do things that are non-spiritual. Like all these morally neutral hobbies that the church likes to frown upon, but aren’t actually sinful in themselves. I’d gone through a bunch of mentors before that. And I thought this was just gonna be repeating the process of like, just me bringing all my garbage of like, “here is all the weird stuff I do. And it’s obviously sinful. Like, I don’t even need to tell you that. But I can’t stop doing it and I can’t pray it away. So just tell me how to stop.” And like, I was expecting another answer along the lines of like, “yeah, like that does sound weird and it’s taking you away from God, so you need to stop that.” But instead of she was just like, “Why do you think that? Like, why is that stuff sinful? Like who told you that? Like, how is it idolatry when you don’t worship it?” And that just kind of caught me off guard. And she went on to tell me, like, in all my stubbornness that like, I’m actually okay. I was kind of arguing, like, “no, I’m a bad person and this is why!” And she’s like, “no, you’re not.” It was like this whole thing.

And this was actually like before my diagnosis, too. And so after that was even more clarity. Like, you’re autistic. So of course you’re gonna have intense special interests. Special interests obviously aren’t exclusive to autism, but the same stuff still applies. At first I was just like, “oh, am I even allowed to trust this? Like, is this even safe?” It’s a crazy thing to feel like it’s unsafe to stop thinking horrible things about yourself, but like, that’s like where I was for a long time.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm, yeah. And I know you mentioned at the beginning that when you first had your epiphany and, and started building your faith, that you were kind of doing it on your own, sort of in private, whether you’re doing your own prayers and that it took you a while to find a, a faith community. So some of the beliefs or, or things that you developed about yourself, did they come from a specific church or a specific faith, or was it sort of a combination of like prayers and self-study and conversations with people, in terms of how you’ve shaped your own faith and relationship with God?

Miya Sae: Yeah, so it was, it was a lot of things. For the end of high school, I finally started going to a church and was like in a high school group, after school Bible study thing. Then in college I was heavily involved in a lot of different campus ministries and I’ve been to different churches. And like, that’s the thing. Despite everything like I’ve actually had extremely good church experiences for the most part. I’m lucky in that way, which is sad because that should be the norm and not the exception. But it’s like, if even I still picked up these harmful messages as an autistic person, then how much more is that the case for the autistic people who haven’t been so lucky and who’ve been in heavily legalistic finger pointing shaming churches?

I wanna be someone who can say to those people, “it’s okay. God loves you and literally made your brain.” People who’ve come alongside me too, is just kind of saying like, let’s look at what the Bible says and doesn’t say. Obviously, like I’m not gonna be right about everything. None of us is gonna be right about everything with theology. But there are different and Biblical ways of looking at a lot of this stuff that is different from the shameful ways that a lot of us have been taught.

Carolyn Kiel: It’s amazing what you pick up, even if it’s not explicitly said or preached or shared by, by other people.

Miya Sae: Yeah. I think there’s just this idea that spending a lot of time is always equivalent to worship, which I guess it can be sometimes with some people. But I had to have people point this out to me multiple times, like Biblically, when the Israelites were actually building idols, it wasn’t the act of sculpting in itself that was bad. It was literally, they were bowing down and worshipping these things and putting their faith into them to give them power and to save them and to deliver them instead of God, after He specifically told them not to do that. And a lot of people now look at that and say ” oh, that’s the same thing as watching a lot of TV!” And like, no, it’s not! Unless someone’s heart is postured that way, I guess. I don’t know. But like I bought into that for a long time. And now when I see that stuff, cause I still see it on social media and stuff, people say that kind of stuff, I always just wanna be like, go read Ecclesiastes and Colossians. Like, please stop saying this. Like, it’s just so harmful.

Carolyn Kiel: It’s even kind of become part of the secular culture, this constant need to be busy and doing something, you know,

Miya Sae: yeah.

Carolyn Kiel: productive. If it’s not religion, it’s like, I have to be productive in society. It’s like, well, no, we weren’t really meant to be doing things every single second. It’s okay to indulge in interests that don’t harm anyone and that don’t make us worse people.

And so now you do a lot of blogging right now specifically about neurodiversity and Christianity. What inspired you to actually start writing publicly about these topics?

Miya Sae: Yeah, so I feel like I did the process backwards. Like I wrote my book first, before I started writing anything else. It’s something I had been thinking about since college, but at the time I was just like, oh, only famous people get published, so I’m not gonna try. But then I just kind of like looked into it and just started doing that. But then finishing that, and then realizing like, oh, there’s so much more to the process of being an author than just writing a book. So I started taking that same content, putting it in blog posts and sending it to other publications and stuff.

It’s a memoir by itself, but then with all this new stuff happening at that time, with the diagnosis and everything and learning what autism actually is, incorporating that into it too. So it’s both autism testimony and faith testimony combined, because you don’t really see that like in the Christian market.

Since I’ve been doing that, I’ve had people express things that just remind me so much of the place I was in for a long time of like, “oh my gosh. I do feel so much shame about this stuff. I thought it’s just me. I thought I was just being lazy or something.” I’ve had my mentor and these other people who’ve just been awesome in my life, and that’s helped me so much. I am in such a better place now. And I feel like every neurodivergent Christian should have someone like that in their lives, in some way. So while I can’t obviously be everyone’s mentor, I wanna share some of the wisdom I’ve gained and the stuff that I’m continuing to learn that nobody’s talking about.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, I think that it’s such a great resource to be able to share those experiences. Cuz yeah, I haven’t heard a lot of people sharing about their faith and how it ties into their own neurodivergence or, or their own autism. So I think it’s such a great resource. And the way that you write it is very much like sharing your own stories and then tying it back to your faith and your relationship with God and how you’ve grown as a person, how your thoughts and beliefs have changed and evolved over time. So it’s, it’s just really interesting.

I know you’re blogging. Did you finish the book and it’s not published? Are you still kind of working on a book?

Miya Sae: Yeah, the book is done. I’m in the querying process. Like in the meantime, I’m posting updates and snippets of content that’s related to all this.

Carolyn Kiel: That’s really great. There’s not a whole lot on the internet that I’ve, I’ve read about around neurodiversity and faith and, and religion. So that’s really, really cool.

Miya Sae: Yeah. Always like one or the other, or like, it’s always about kids. My whole disclaimer, I always tell people like autistic or not, I don’t know anything about kids, so don’t ask me for parenting advice. But like, where is all this stuff for autistic Christian adults? I found a total of one and a half books on that, like one of them with that focus, but that was after a year of looking for stuff.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, because even children and adults in general just have very different ways that they develop and grow their faith. Like, I don’t know, you could be a child growing up in a church and maybe it’s just sort of something that you take for granted because your whole community around you believe certain things. And then as an adult, you know, you face different challenges and, and your faith is challenged and you question and you change the ways that you think about things. So it’s just a very different journey. So really interesting to hear it from a neurodivergent adult’s standpoint.

Miya, thank you so much for sharing more about your stories and sharing your journey with us. How can people get in touch with you if they wanna like, read some of your work or learn more about your book or your blog? Where should they go to find you?

Miya Sae: Yeah. I have pages for all that stuff on my website, MiyaSae.com. That’s M I Y A S A E. Instagram is miyasaeofficial, and Twitter too, but I don’t use it. I’ll just be posting similar stuff to this. There’s like freebies sometimes, like devotionals and stuff. Come along for the ride if you wanna get encouraged. Engage, cuz like I wanna hear from you. Even though I’m a memoir author, this isn’t the Miya show, like the Christian life is all about community.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Do you have any sort of general advice that you give to other either autistic or otherwise neurodivergent people who have a faith, but are maybe struggling with maybe some of the same things that you struggled with, or are really struggling with their relationship with God right now?

Miya Sae: Just like know that it’s okay. Like you’re okay. It’s not just you, I promise. It’s not just you. I thought it was just me. God doesn’t love you any less than anyone else. Like, you know, please ask questions. I think a lot of people just are afraid to ask questions, but it’s a good thing to ask questions.

And I would say like, critically think the criticisms that people toss at you. Is it actually Biblical or like, do those people just not like that you are different because they don’t get how autism works? Think about God’s character and why he came to die on the cross in the first place. Take some time to think about these things. And like, it’s okay if it’s a process. I still wrestle with this stuff, it’s cognitive dissonance. Like I went many, many years believing all that legalistic stuff, so it takes a while to unlearn it all. But I think there’s beauty in the process, like God teaches us and grows us in the process. Think about that stuff. And I think it’ll be helpful in combating shame.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Well that’s really, really powerful. Yeah. And Miya, as we close out, is there anything else that you’d like our listeners to know or anything that they can help and support you with?

Miya Sae: Yeah, just keep in touch on social media. I wanna give encouraging content and also even just engagement, that’ll help me get my book published.

Carolyn Kiel: Fantastic. Yep. I’ll put all the links to your website and your socials in the show notes of this podcast so that people can get to it easily from there.

Thank you so much, Miya. It was great talking with you and thank you so much for sharing your story on the show today.

Miya Sae: Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Carolyn Kiel: Thanks for listening to Beyond 6 Seconds. Please help me spread the word about this podcast. Share it with a friend, give it a shout out on your social media or write a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast player. You can find all of my episodes and sign up for my free newsletter at beyond6seconds.net. Until next time.