Episode 228: Chinese New Year, filmmaking and autism acceptance – with Beatrice Leong

The episode transcript is below.

Carolyn Kiel: Welcome to Beyond 6 Seconds, the podcast that goes beyond the six second first impression to share the extraordinary stories of neurodivergent people. I’m your host, Carolyn Kiel.

Carolyn Kiel: Before we get started, I want to give you a quick heads-up about some of the content in this episode. During our conversation, my guest talks about the death of her beloved pet and mentions her experience with institutionalization and electroconvulsive treatment. If these are difficult topics for you, please use your discretion when listening to this episode.

On today’s episode, I’m speaking with Beatrice Leong, a Malaysian entrepreneur and documentary filmmaker who’s followed a diverse career path driven by her curiosity and passion for stories. After a lifetime of mental health challenges and misdiagnoses, she was diagnosed as autistic at the age of 35, bringing clarity to her lifelong struggles. She founded AIDA, Autism Inclusiveness Direct Action Group, an autistic led advocacy group that promotes inclusion and self representation of the autistic community. She actively participates in shaping policies to improve the lives of autistic individuals.

Beatrice, welcome to the podcast.

Beatrice Leong: Hi, thanks for having me. I think this has been a long time coming, so I’m glad we’re finally doing it.

Carolyn Kiel: I’m really excited. I know we’ve been trying to connect for a couple months now. And I actually first learned about your work through a commercial short film that you worked on last year around this time, during Chinese New Year, which is coming up and probably will already be going on when this episode airs. I saw your short film that you made for a banking group and it was about autism and it was kind of based on your own struggles a bit growing up as an autistic girl and finding acceptance after getting your autism diagnosis.

So I would love to learn a little bit about making that short film, like what, what inspired you to make it and what was it like sharing something sort of adapted on your own experience in a film like that?

Beatrice Leong: Maybe I’ll start a little bit of a background on how did they actually find me. So when they actually contacted me, the producer that was actually working with the bank, the agency. So the bank is RHB. They are one of the top five banks in Malaysia, a very successful commercial bank.

So what they did was when they contacted me, I was under the impression that they wanted me to produce a film for them. Like they are contacting me in the capacity that I’m a producer for a film, until they sent me the deck and I saw that like, Oh wait, I’m, it’s it’s making a story from my story from what they’ve read about me! So it caught me a little bit by surprise because I’m never quite a commercial person. And I do very little commercial work, at least not in the last seven to eight years. So when that happened, I kind of had to think a little bit about it because I was also navigating between like, Oh, you know, how much do I actually want it to, tell my story in such a way and what are my limitations?

But then when they actually asked me that, you know, I think you should direct your own film. And that completely changed, that completely changed my, my feelings about it. And I was like, okay, so now this seems more of like an inclusion that’s meaningful because not only do I get to tell the story, I actually get to tell it my way. And that had been really, really important. And I think the bank also took a very brave decision and a very brave, I would say a risk

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm .

Beatrice Leong: To also bank on it, right? Because like this is here, taking someone who is from a completely different, completely different filmmaking background. ’cause making documentaries and making a commercial film is totally different.

So we did that. And then we came out with storyboard. Of course, there were a lot of negotiations over what could work commercially and what would not. So we do have to change a little bit of things because it’s a very limited time of three minutes just to hit on a key message.

And I wanted to tell the story of growing up. Because I think with autism and with my experience, it’s not so much about, I mean, everything is important and urgent right now, but what I felt, what I’ve always felt was, I missed out on my childhood. I missed out on the whole trajectory of girlhood, right? So I wanted to tell that story. And I wanted to tell the story of how important support in school was and how, how a lot of things could have changed for girls like us if only, you know, school life had changed a little bit. And the importance of also families really understanding you. And to look beyond, who do we see? You know, this Asian young girl, right? Beyond the stereotype. So that was the story that we crafted. And it became a I, I think it got a lot of great reviews. It really traveled. The bank did a really good job at marketing it. Yeah. So, yeah.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, absolutely. It was very moving. I’ve, I’ve seen it, I’ve watched it a few times now and it brings me to tears, like every time. It is, it’s incredibly moving. And I think also because it’s filmed through the first person. You know, a lot of films, you’re sort of watching all of the characters and you as the audience are separate. But in this film, you see the perspective of this autistic young girl before she realizes she’s autistic. So I think that really, it literally puts people in, in her shoes and helps them kind of experience things along with her.

Beatrice Leong: Yeah, I think what really, something that made me really grateful for doing that was, it wasn’t just autistic girls who came up to me. It was almost a lot of people who came up to me: “That was how I felt. That was what growing up not being understood was like.” And that really gave me a whole perspective of, you know, and, and that I would also say that was a turning point in a lot of the advocacy message that I was doing because it was a lot about autism. And I’m not abandoning autism advocacy, but I realized that it’s a lot bigger than that. The moving into understanding disability started from that, you know, to see beyond that it’s not just us, it’s the entire disabled community, women and girls, especially. So when people started messaging, of course, I’m a little bit weirded out when people tell me, “Oh my God, I cried.” I’m like, “Oh, no, don’t cry. Don’t cry. Yeah. Don’t cry. Look at the ice cream. Think about the ice cream.” Yeah.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Wow. And, and that’s, that’s, that’s really interesting that girls and women who weren’t autistic, but felt different and ostracized in some way were coming up to you and sharing that message. Yeah, there’s a lot of, you know, a lot of universal themes in that short film as well.

Yeah. I’d love to learn a little more about your, your own story of discovering that you’re autistic and growing up without that diagnosis and kind of feeling different. So I guess what was life like before you were diagnosed with autism when you were growing up.

Beatrice Leong: Chaos before. I think it’s still a chaos now. I’ve always said this, it’s almost as if I lived the first 40 years of my life, I’m 40 now, well, but it’s almost as if I lived 40 years of my life being outside of my body, looking at myself, not knowing what’s going to happen. Like, I, I have a lot of difficulties imagining a future, or I have a lot of difficulty imagining beyond what’s tomorrow, or beyond crisis of the day. I feel as if, like, I’m constantly looking for something.

You know, as a child, I was watching so much TV. I was watching so much cartoons. I read so much books. I was reading bio, huge stacks of biographies at the age of six, seven, trying to find something that fits me, to find a personality that, Oh, maybe I could be this. Maybe I could be that, you know? Because it’s almost as everything that I’ve tried, I’m not in my skin.

And I could see all the things that I was doing. And sometimes when I have a moment to sit down, you know, I would think of like, wow, you know, I watch you do that and I, I realize that you shouldn’t have do that, but you’re doing it to try anyway because you’ve tried so many things. And I think that adds a lot of exhaustion, right? It’s like being stuck in Ikea and walking round and round and trying to pick up random stuff but never getting out of Ikea.

So, and it was chaotic because you keep hitting crisis upon crisis upon crisis. So, I’ve never really had a moment to stop and think about actually what’s going on. I’ve never had that opportunity. I just have to kept going. But the problem with to keep going is you don’t know where you’re going. You know, and, and that’s not a good way to live.

Yeah, and, and every road that I go to, it seems as if, like, you’re being met with another wall, because one day someone’s gonna say, today you’re schizophrenic, tomorrow you’re bipolar, another day your borderline, you know, so walk this path. So I tried every path. I tried every path. It wasn’t as if I denied this diagnosis. In fact, I don’t know for all you know, maybe I have all of these other conditions either because, but I walked this path. I walked this path as if this diagnosis that was given to me throughout the first 35 years of my life before I went for the assessment. I always thought that maybe one of these paths would work. Right?

So, but when I, when, when finally everything, I, I suppose falls into place or when the assessment finally happened, it took a long time. It didn’t happen immediately that, oh, wow, I’m autistic, so life is all good right now. I think I’m still learning. I think it’s been five years, four or five years since even that even crossed my mind, right? I think I’m still learning, right? Like, I’m still learning what does autism mean to me, or how am I autistic? I also sit some days and think, you know, whether is that true? Am I really autistic? Because I seem to be doing all these things that people say that autistic people can’t do, but I’m doing it, right? So I sit sometimes and like, oh, wow.

So. So it is still chaos, but at the very least, what changed was I’m moving forward. I’m not stuck. I’m not going back on the path anymore, right? I’m not making a U turn to find a different solution. I am now on the path that I’m, I’m, I’m crossing hurdles now. I’m crossing barriers now, so I’m facing problems that I can figure a way out and that changed a lot of things moving forward.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. That ability finally in your life to be able to see a little bit into the future and move forward where you just didn’t have that visibility for a long time.

Beatrice Leong: Yeah. And I also think that that’s a vocabulary that’s been given to me to describe my life experiences, right? Like I now have this set of words or this set of reference that I could say, Oh my God, yes, that’s what I’m experiencing. So I can use that to tell people, this is what’s happening inside my head. You know, if no one has ever given me this option, no one has ever given me this set of tools to be able to describe what I’m feeling, I don’t think I would be able to do what I do today or even get support that I need. Yeah.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. That’s really powerful and it also underscores a lot of people’s experiences that sort of getting diagnosed or realizing that you’re autistic later in life isn’t necessarily the big aha moment that kind of fixes everything. I, I, I think for a lot of people, it can take many years to really sit with and understand what that means, and you might go back and forth and feel different ways about it.

And as you said, you’re always learning. And I think that yeah, that’s something. for people to keep in mind. Because I, I’ve talked to other people and even in my own experience, you know, I’m still learning after a couple of years what it means for me. So.

Beatrice Leong: And I also think that we shouldn’t feel that we must always arrive at the same interpretation of what autism is. I think it means different things to different people. We all have different life experiences. How I experience it, my interpretation of it would not be the same as how you would experience it, how you would interpret it.

And it takes time to grow into it. I also tell a lot of people I grew into it. I have to grow into a role. I have to grow into identity, right? And I think there is also a part, instead of the aha moment that I was looking for, I have to also grieve who I was. And I think that was the most painful thing.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah.

Beatrice Leong: Because when I did my assessment, it was the same time that my , we are crying now, and when I did my assessment, it was the same time that my dog was dying. I said this many things, but you know, the actual truth was when she was dying, I also felt that a part of me died. And that whole process of that assessment during her, her last few months had also been about watching myself die, a part of myself, right? And people forget that when they get the diagnosis. They forget that a part of you is gonna go away, that chaos that you know that had been a comfort. Because if you live with comfort and trauma for so long, it’s gonna be you. And it’s really hard to leave that. And that part of that journey for any late diagnosis, you need to go through it. Yeah.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, it’s been your whole life. That, that’s the whole life that you know it even, you know, all the difficulties, all the challenges, but it’s what you know.

And yeah, as you said, you’re grieving, you’re grieving the loss of that. And you’re also sometimes looking back and saying the realization that things that autism impacts the way that you, your experiences growing up. So I, I don’t know how to say this, but sort of looking back and being like, oh, I thought everything was my fault and that I was wrong, but like all these things, if things have been different, then my life would’ve been different or fewer challenges. And there’s kind of a grieving process in that too, to kind of realize like, wait a minute. Yeah.

Beatrice Leong: I think to me it’s also about, it’s also about, I, there’s this line that I love it says, “ships passing in the night.” And I feel as if I’ve let a lot of ships pass by me. By the time I got my diagnosis, I think I was also thinking about a lot of fractured relationships that had happened. So that had to be a form of, I had to think about, you know, if only they knew. So it also meant, you know, I had to put down, I had to put down a lot of what it means to be young, what it means to be a girl, what it means to be a young woman, because I’ve kind of went straight from that to, oh, now I’m a woman now. You know, I’ve skipped the entire experience of girlhood. It’s so important to me.

And also, I think, because I got it so late, you know, and I don’t want to shy away to also think about that, what about being a mom myself, right? Were these opportunities or marriage, maybe, relationships that could have lasted? And I think this is something that, you know, as much as I’m so empowered by a diagnosis, but I lost a part of being a woman. So yeah. So now this is starting to be really sad.

Carolyn Kiel: But yeah, these are, these are, these are important things and there’s, there’s just so much, there’s so much that comes with the diagnosis and, and the realization.

Beatrice Leong: For a woman, I think that’s something that people need to understand, you know, being a late diagnosed woman. It’s so different.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Yeah, it really is.

And since your autism diagnosis, you’ve become a really strong advocate and activist, really starting out for autistic women in Malaysia who are diagnosed later in life. But your activism and advocacy has really expanded to, you know, more women and girls around the world as well. Yeah, tell me about some of the advocacy that you do.

Beatrice Leong: I’m a very reluctant activist and a very reluctant leader because for someone like me, I don’t have a choice. Actually for a lot of girls like me, we don’t have a choice but to create the world that you want. And I was spurred on by, when I, when I was going through the assessment, I was looking up for information online. I couldn’t find anything in, in Malaysia or in Asia that, that speaks to me without telling me I’m damaged goods, you know? And what I found was, you know, children related information, which I think is great. But. I just can’t relate. I just cannot relate, you know? How would practicing juggling a ball help with my hand eye coordination when I’m 35, right?

And on the day that I got my final diagnosis, when I got that letter, I remember I was so freaked out with what I was reading online. It tells me that I’m going to live, I think the average mortality rate for late diagnosed autistic women with a compounded trauma was at 40 something and I freaked out. I literally had a meltdown in front of my psychologist and I told her, “Do you know then that I have only this much time to live? Are you going to take care of my dog? Do you want my dog?” You know, and, and I had that massive breakdown and, and I think even she, you know, poor her, like, even she couldn’t give me a pathway because there just isn’t any. The best that she could is, go back to your therapist, you know? But here, then, that therapist was a male who was pointing me to places like Asperger’s, who thinks that autism is my superpower, you know. Not to his fault, but it’s just different. It’s not that, right? And then she passed me a phone number to a child center.

So, so I got really angry inside. But it was this deep anger that how can it be that that isn’t anything at all? And then I tried, and then I found a peer group. But they required me to be in a good mental health state before they think that I’m less risk to be a part of them. You know, so there are a lot of all these preconditions before you actually get your support. That takes away the meaning of support, does it?

But maybe because I’ve always been very vocal about a lot of stuff, especially on women’s issues, mental health, you know, and then I, I realized that like, okay, if nothing is going to be made available for me, I’m going to do it myself. That’s just, maybe that’s a trauma response.

Carolyn Kiel: It’s like, I can fix it myself!

Beatrice Leong: Yeah. I’m like, okay, you’re not going to give me anything. I’m just going to go and figure it out myself. So I kind of cobbled something together. And I think maybe because of the years working very closely with people in the media, having some experience in the media so the kind of people around it.

So, and I started writing. I wanted to process it a lot. I was working on a film project then. It was very different then. You know, I wanted to understand myself through other people. So not only I was writing about my experience, I was writing about other people. And that really helped because then it gave AIDA an entirely different angle of how we do advocacy because we were good at media. We were good at storytelling. I saw the importance of being able to tell your story your way. It’s not about being right. It’s not about my story is the right one or their story is the wrong one, right? But to be able to just tell your story, in your way. So AIDA had always been about that.

And I think because we hit that point that we started to be visible, people understood a little bit more. And coming out of COVID, people were understanding isolation. Everyone understood better what anxiety is. Everyone understood a little bit more about what being overwhelmed is. So that had really helped AIDA and we moved very quickly beyond just being a small little advocacy group into a regional group and myself as well to be able to contribute regionally. And I’ve been supported by so many. I’m standing on the shoulders of giants. I’ve been supported by so many great women, so many great leaders to be able to go further, to be able to pursue the advocacy at the level that I do, to move beyond so that I could come back to Malaysia now and say that, look, I’ve seen this. I’ve worked on this. Now, can we try something else for Malaysia? So that’s that.

Carolyn Kiel: Wow, that’s amazing. Because through AIDA, you really sort of touch on a lot of different, you know, types of advocacy. So you talk about the storytelling and using the media and also, I, I think you had mentioned beforehand that there’s sort of like a, a political aspect to this in terms of, I don’t know if it’s, it’s policy changes or just sort of like awareness. How does that aspect play into the work of AIDA?

Beatrice Leong: What’s often misunderstood about policy is we think that it’s just about laws, about when you do something wrong. But politics is personal. Everything that you do, it’s political. There are implications to it. There is a systemic governance that governs how you live your life. It will determine whether are you going to get support or not. I could make so much access available or resource available, but if the system doesn’t help my community gain this access, they will still not be able to get the support.

So that’s why I saw that there is this gap. We have so many different organizations in Malaysia. We have so many different non profit civil society, you know, but we’re doing a lot of welfare stuff. We’re not changing the root of the problem. You’re not changing the root of discrimination. You’re not changing the economics policies that is going to determine whether are you going to live a better quality of life or not, right?

So I wanted to affect policy because I’m not going to waste my time trying to run another, let’s do a walk to support autism. How will that help me in my life? Like, no offense. I think it’s fun. You know, I think everyone should dress up in their onesies and go and run around, you know, and, and maybe donate like five dollars for each. But you know, I’m not knocking this down, but there are fault lines and we must address these fault lines. So that’s where I wanted to bring AIDA, you know?

But there is also this push also of whether are we ready to do it or not? Do we as autistics understand this? Do we as disabled understand the role that we play? Are we always going to be a part of community that, you know, I’m tired. Let’s just wait and see? Or are we going to take control of our lives? Right? So changing policy has been so important to me because if you don’t change that, I’m never going to get the support. I’m never going to be able to design this world that I want to live in. Right?

And it’s also about the majority voice against the minority voice. We are minorities. You know, how do you get your voice heard? How do you push it? And if you want people to care, if you want the world to change, you need to change the mind of the masses. And that’s where awareness and that policy change has got to come hand in hand.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, and that’s incredible because it sounds like in Malaysia, you’re almost starting from the point where you have to even build awareness. Because in your own experience, you know, you spent your whole life searching for people who had similar experiences to yours and clearly they’re out there, but either it’s just such a hidden population or somewhat invisible that you had to go and find people who had similar experiences and then, you know, find the systemic issues and the root causes and build support and impetus for change, like real change in terms of policy to make sure that those supports actually work and that people can access them. So it’s really from the very beginning of awareness all the way to like, okay, here’s how we’re going to rebuild our systems, which is really amazing.

Beatrice Leong: I mean, I think Malaysia is also unique because we are so diverse. Advocacy in Malaysia is not easy because of language diversity, race diversity, culture norms diversity. You know, we’ve got so many different ethnicities.

And also Asians, right? We have to also find a meaning to what autism means to us. It’s very, very different, right? How, how the support that I get, it may not be therapy. You know, I’ve always been a huge, huge proponent of how do we decolonize the meaning of autism for Asia? How do I decolonize support? You know, how do I make people understand to get out of the colonization of our minds of what exactly is support or even self care is for us? Right? Is going to a spa day enough?

And, you know, Malaysia is an oral, linguistic mainstream country. We tell so much oral stories. Why am I looking at written literature from the West? So, I feel that that’s the challenge in Malaysia, you know. And also I think we had been a nation that’s been, there is a collective healing that needs to happen for the disabled community. It’s very fractured. Political instability had given us a lot of falsehood. Our views had been so difficult to be mainstream because we are just a category of “let’s just help them.” You know, just the same as like, let’s help the poor, and we say let’s help the disabled, right? And if to break that system, it would also mean I’m breaking the help that the current disabled community has. Are we ready to work for that? You know, are we ready to move beyond that? Are we ready to go through that pain? Because it’s going to be painful. Just as I found my diagnosis, I need to spend years to grieve. Are we as a nation ready for that? We’ve got to ask this question on why it’s so hard.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, that’s a big, huge change in thinking and approaches. And yeah, even in the West, a lot of our approach to helping disabled people is charity. Like we have so many charities and really we, some systems, but not, not nearly enough systems to help support the whole disability community, at least in the United States.

So, yeah.

Beatrice Leong: Yeah. I think it’s a global thing.

It’s also about addressing power dynamics. We rarely want to talk about power because we are afraid of, like, having power taken away from us. Or ceding power is just so difficult. Even stepping into power is difficult.

I think that’s, it is a global issue, it is a global issue with disability. It is better in some countries because, you know, they start to see, like, better policies to support that ascent to power for minorities. But it may not be what we think.

But it’s a process. It’s always a process. I always thought that like when we talk about awareness or inclusion, the empowerment of autistic community, you know, we seem to think that it’s a destination, but I never thought that I wanted to arrive. But it’s that process of how am I one step closer to feeling that I, I, I belong in my skin today. You know, am I one, am I two steps further tomorrow to belong in my skin?

And when I’m going into a different phase of my life, like say I’m 45, you know, in five years time, how will it change for me? How would that process for the inclusion change for me? You know, we have not yet started to think about how am I, how are we taking care of autistic people in their old age?

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah.

Beatrice Leong: You know my back’s been hurting. I think I need to start thinking about that. So, so, so yeah, it’s it’s, it’s that process. We need to get the process right. We need to get the framework right. We need to get the mindset right. Then the world would change.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, that’s really powerful.

Absolutely. Yeah, and thank you for all of the work that you’ve been doing to help start those discussions and build those policies and help make that happen. As you said, it’s, it’s really not a destination. It’s something you constantly have to talk about. It’s not like you achieve it and then you can just be like, oh, we’re done, like all set. But yeah, it’s a constant, constant drive.

And then, in addition, you, you are primarily a documentary filmmaker. And I know you’re, you’re actually working on a large film right now. Tell me about your film that you’re working on and what it’s about .

Beatrice Leong: Like, so naturally when I got my assessment, apart from all the writing and starting an organization and, you know, walking around with a pitchfork, I, I think one of the most natural reaction to process a lot of what’s been happening was I said, I’m going to make a film to understand this whole issue because people need to know. And especially, I’ve been institutionalized before, and I’ve been given course into electroconvulsive treatment. I, I think that’s also where a lot of the drive of why I do what I do is because I had that experience. Some people don’t. So it’s more, to me, it’s more than just about getting a diagnosis. It’s also addressing something that could have happened.

When we talk about the abuse of, you know, autistic people, sometimes, and I’m not disparaging other people’s view and experiences, but I’ve been there. I’ve been in that chair, right? So I thought that let me process it because I, I wanted to look for other people to see, have you experienced this?

So the project started where I, I connected with some people online and I was filming them. I was interviewing them. I was talking to so many other girls from around the world. I was, I was still telling other people’s story. And that project kind of went back and forth. I was ambivalent about it because I, I was also going through this whole, like, how much of myself am I telling the world, right? I’ve kept a lot of things so much in because, you know, I’ve also been very guarded over, like, how much of my experience are people going to be able to relate, you know? And sometimes when I tell people what I go through, I get this whole, like, “I cannot imagine.” You know, and that made me feel like, oh, okay, yeah, maybe I shouldn’t talk about this.

And that, that was in the back burner, I, I, I was looking at it, it was something that I was doing and working on but it couldn’t move, right? And then, and then the commercial happened. And when I did the commercial, because it was a commercial piece, it means that we need to put in a lot of creative license into it to, to sort of make something that appeals to the masses. And it’s not to say that it wasn’t a true story. Everything in that happened. Right? But I realized that it was not enough to tell the world my story because I realized that how much power I actually have with my story. So there was this particular little scene in that video where the camera turns around to me and I was sitting at the monitor and, and the, when we were shooting that, it just clicked in my head for the film, the feature film that, oh my god, what I’ve been lost in that version of the film, I’m not telling my story. I can’t be out here asking people to own your story, to be brave and tell your story, but I’m not willing to give you that part of myself, right? And I wanted to tell a more true story of my experiences. All the works. All the works.

And also the idea of monsters. I’m fascinated with monsters, but I’m a huge wuss, right? I, I am scared of what’s under the bed. I am scared of different things. I get freaked out easily as you would. But I’m so fascinated with this idea of monsters because, and also Medusa. People often look at her as this gorgon that with all the multiple snakes that come out from her head. But you don’t realize that Medusa’s story is one of betrayal, a victim of abuse. That’s why she became who she was. And I realized that that’s who I have become. I’ve been so angry at the world.

So that idea of monsters, about looking beyond the label of monsters, and that’s why it is about the myth of monsters. Because, how do people become monsters? How do we become scared of something? Are we scared because we don’t know it? Right? And I realized in that little scene while we were shooting that I’ve also been afraid of myself because I don’t know what’s in me and I’ve never given an opportunity to know myself.

So that changed my film. And, and I rewrote an entire pitch, a treatment. So in the documentary, well, you start with a pitch and then you work on your trailer. You’ll still be working on it, but it’s a long process. Especially those of us who tell very, very personal stories. And then I had a really good year. The moment I changed that framing, And, and especially those who had followed me from the start, that had really been, that had really changed the film around. And it also had changed my life in the last year. Working on this film, even at just pitching, because I’m filming along the way. And the advocacy grew. The film is capturing it. My work is capturing it. I felt that the more I was willing to put out in the film, the more I was willing to give, the more I get to know myself, the more I was able to own my story honestly and fully, right? And, and it also changes the way I walk because now I walk without fear. I walk into rooms knowing that like, you may think that  I’m a disabled person or I’m a monster  or I’m going to freak out at you anytime,  but you don’t know my story and I’m going to be able to show it to you one day. And it becomes such a powerful empowerment thing, even just in the process.

You know, so yeah, so, but, but I am also really grateful ever since I started putting the project out into the public. And I suppose it’s also about calling for the universe to like, I think the time is now to make this film, to finish it, so that I could also move on with my life, maybe. You know, maybe this is the film that I need to make, right? Not just for myself, of course, for myself, not just because it’s a film, but for myself, but also maybe this is the impetus, a film that other kids, children, little girls, right? Is going to look at this and say that, like, I’m going to be telling my own story too. I’m going to say that, like, I saw Beatrice’s story, she did this, and I’m going to fight for my life the way that she did.

So that’s the film. I’m hoping to finish it in the next two years. It’s definitely, it’s in progress. I can finally say this, this film is in progress. It’s taken a little bit longer, but so yeah, so that’s the film.

Yeah.

Carolyn Kiel: And what’s the name of the film again?

Beatrice Leong: The Myth of Monsters.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, that’s awesome. And that’s real, that’s so fascinating that making this commercial short film gave you the realization or the impetus to truly start focusing on this much longer feature film that will be able to tell more of your life. That’s really exciting.

Beatrice Leong: I think the documentary world is also changing. People are looking at a lot of social justice film and where there’s a lot more people are also telling very personal stories that have big teams. So now there’s a huge area that we are looking at which is Impact of the film. And I’ve been so lucky that this film had gained a lot of support in terms of the impact strategy that it could make. Like, it’s not just going to be a film, you know. We’ve got plans when it’s been released how we’re going to use it as an educational tool. You know, what kind of workshops that I could give to other girls to just put a camera into your hand. Because that was what changed for me, you know? That I’ve been like 15 years of owning the different iPhones and paying respect to the great gods of capitalists. You know, I’ve got 15 years worth of my life that have empowered me, right? So the impact of the film is hoping that we could carry this on and like, maybe other girls could make their films. You know, instead of like one huge monsters, we’re going to have like a hundred little monsters. I don’t know.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, it’s that power of storytelling. One of many ways to empower people to share their stories and sort of take that power back that they may have felt that they didn’t have or were afraid to, to step into. That’s really cool.

Beatrice, where can we learn more about your, your filmmaking? Where can people go to find out more about the type of work that you do?

Beatrice Leong: I think a quick Google search with my name. I’m really horrible. I just told a friend yesterday, I think I need to get a website. I’ve been saying that for the last 10 years. I bought my domain 10 years ago, but I haven’t worked on anything on it yet. I am on social media, but I am also quite private. But the projects and a lot of the advocacy work online, we have several links. I’m happy to share the link to some of what’s happening with the Myth of Monsters and you could share. Yeah.

Carolyn Kiel: Okay. Yeah. I’ll put some of those in the show notes if people want to learn more about the film.

Beatrice Leong: I’m always on Instagram. I’m a serial Instagram Reels watcher. Like I love all this AI animal watching stuff. Yeah.

Carolyn Kiel: Should I put your Instagram in there too, or is that more of a private account?

Beatrice Leong: Yeah.

Carolyn Kiel: Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Great. And I’ll, I’ll put your Instagram on there too. Awesome! Yeah. Beatrice, thank you so much for sharing your, your story and, and all of the great work you’re doing around filmmaking and advocacy and activism. Is there anything else that you’d like our listeners to know or anything that they can help or support you with right now?

Beatrice Leong: I think sometimes when we talk about autism, we need to step out of autism to talk about autism. Especially for us who are late diagnosed, right? Because we have lost hope, we have lost so much hope, that once we find something that fits us, you know, we put so much hope into thinking that, like, this is the answer.

But I, I want people to actually understand that sometimes you need to step back from the diagnosis and you need to also live your life with or without the diagnosis. Because you can spend a lot of years, you know, just wallowing in it of whether are you going to get a formal diagnosis or not, is the support going to be there or not. You know, we can get trapped. I was trapped in it for a long time, and I, and I think it’s a painful place to be. And I wish that, you know, don’t forget to live a life.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah.

Beatrice Leong: Yeah. That’s the most important thing. Never forget to live a life.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Thank you Beatrice for bringing a lot of hope and education and awareness and driving real change to help, you know, not just autistic women and girls in Malaysia, but really, women and girls in, in Asia and, and beyond.

So yeah. Thank you so much. And thank you for sharing your story on my show today.

Beatrice Leong: No worries, thank you. I hope everybody gets something out of it.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, absolutely.

Carolyn Kiel: Thanks for listening to Beyond 6 Seconds. Please help me spread the word about this podcast. Share it with a friend, give it a shout out on your social media, or write a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast player. You can find all of my episodes and sign up for my free newsletter at Beyond6seconds.net. Until next time.