Episode 175: Disability representation in media – with Jeremy Andrew Davis

The episode transcript is below.

Carolyn Kiel: Welcome to Beyond 6 Seconds, the podcast that goes beyond the six second first impression to share the extraordinary stories of neurodivergent people. I’m your host, Carolyn Kiel.

On today’s episode I’m speaking with Jeremy Andrew Davis. Jeremy is “multi-disabled,” as he puts it, with several neurodivergencies as well as chronic illnesses. He’s a recognized name in disability who became one of 12 LinkedIn Top Voices of Disability Advocacy of 2022. He’s a screenwriter, film director and a consultant for disability representation in media. As a social media influencer himself, he has more than a hundred million video views across his career. On Jeremy’s newest TikTok channel where he creates entertaining videos on his disability experience, he’s already approaching 300,000 followers after only six months of creating content. Jeremy, welcome to the podcast.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Thank you so much.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, so happy to have you here. And so I’m excited after having watched a lot of your TikTok videos and Instagram Reels and hearing your voice there. It’s exciting to hear your voice like talking to me right now.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: And it’s great talking with you. Thank you so much for having me.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. I’m so glad you’re here. I would love to learn a little bit about your story around like neurodivergence and such. How did you discover that you’re neurodivergent?

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Yeah. You know, I don’t know when I came across this specific term, neurodivergency. But it’s been pretty late in life that I have gotten any of the diagnoses. Growing up. I was always the weird kid, or I hung out with, you know, my friends were the weird kids. It’s like, oh, you know, we, we communicate well with each other.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: And so I was 33 years old and kind of looking into ADHD and I was like, well, I’ll, I’ll go into the doctor and I’m pretty sure that I have it. So I got a diagnosis. And it was funny because a couple weeks after I was diagnosed, I had reconnected with a couple high school friends and I’m like, yeah, I just found out that I’m ADHD. And they’re like, you didn’t know?

Carolyn Kiel: Oh!

Jeremy Andrew Davis: I’m like, You didn’t tell me? And they’re like, We thought you knew! So it, it’s one of those things where it’s apparent to everybody else, but I didn’t view myself in that way.

So a few years later I was diagnosed with CPTSD, which is another neurodivergency and arrived at that through a lot of therapy and that kind of thing, some realizations there.

And then it actually wasn’t until this year, it was really the end of last year that I was writing a screenplay, and I wanted to have an autistic character in there, so I was researching autism. And I’ve followed autistic creators for years. I’ve had a lot of autistic friends, and I went to take a self-assessment quiz to basically learn more about autism so that I could better understand this character, and came out of the quiz with, Oh, it says I’m probably autistic!

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: So I got the official diagnosis this summer. And my understanding of autism has dramatically changed because of my perceptions of what autism was, was based on how it’s portrayed in the media. So it’s been a several year journey discovering my neurodivergencies and the diagnoses that go with that. And then you know, addressing my internalized ableism, finding my power, finding my disabled pride, and all of, all of that long, complicated, but also very rewarding journey.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. And especially with autism, I mean, I was diagnosed, I think it’s, it’s exactly a year today that I got my official diagnosis.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Congratulations!

Carolyn Kiel: Thank you!

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Happy anniversary!

Carolyn Kiel: It is like my Auti-versary. I don’t know, something, I’ll make up a term for it.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Oh, that’s great!

Carolyn Kiel: But I kind of, very similar to how you were describing is that I grew up, you know, I’m, I’m in my mid forties, so I have all of the, you know, 1980s, early nineties views of what autism was and just

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Right.

Carolyn Kiel: really not understanding it at all. So, yeah, I was curious about, you know, how your journey had went particularly with realizing you’re autistic. Because I didn’t even, I didn’t even understand autism until quite recently. And then, followed a lot of autistic content creators and then learned how it sometimes looked in girls and women.

I’m like, Oh wait. You know, kind of sounds like me a little bit. And then

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Mm-hmm.

Carolyn Kiel: you know, and then you journey through the whole like “Highly Sensitive Person” and like all these other things that are sort of like code or like overlap,

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Right.

Carolyn Kiel: Well, that might just actually be autism.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Right, right.

Carolyn Kiel: But yeah, it is so important to have that media out there that’s really authentic representation of neurodivergency.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: And it’s, it’s so absent.

Carolyn Kiel: It is. Yeah. Absolutely.

You’re a filmmaker. You direct films, you make films. So how did you become interested in, in filmmaking as a career?

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Well, it, it’s been a hyperfocus for a long, long time.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: I’ve always loved story and storytelling and consuming story and all the different forms that it comes in. And in seventh grade I started to have self-actualization, like just the clarity of it of like, this is so important in my life to get through what I’m struggling with. Which I didn’t know what I was struggling with at the time in the context that I do now. And I, I was just like, I, I want to have this same kind of impact in other people’s lives.

I, I wanna share the things that I’ve experienced that could be helpful in the way these things are helpful to me. And then I also saw how films were so impactful on shifting cultural and societal opinions and directions.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: And I wanted to help influence that in a positive way. So ever since seventh grade I’ve had the singular mind of, I want to be a writer and director of films that compete within the Hollywood system.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: And I started writing my first novel. And I’ve gone in that direction ever since. Even though it’s taken me into places I never knew would’ve existed, such as social media, when I first had that dream.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. That’s really cool. So like, what kind of topics do you like to explore in the films you make?

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Oh, see, this is, this is the cool thing about story is that you can dive into any hyperfixation that’s pinging your interest at that time.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm!

Jeremy Andrew Davis: So there, there are so many things that I’m interested in. Music and dinosaurs and airplanes and geology and space and invention and you know, like, and I have stories where I can play in that sandbox with that subject and just live in that world. So that’s, that’s one of the great things that I really love about storytelling.

But at the same time, one of the epiphanies that I had recently was I was looking back on everything that I’ve written and all the ideas that I’ve written down, things like that, ever since seventh grade, and I had this light bulb moment and I’m like, Oh my gosh. Every single one of these has a disabled main character and I didn’t realize it.

Carolyn Kiel: Wow!

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Even in seventh grade!

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Like my main character, it’s a really dark story for a seventh grader, but he’s ostracized from his culture. He has depression and self hate and basically CPTSD, which I didn’t know I had at the time.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: And I’m like, wow. All of these stories have disability representation, but the stories aren’t about disability. They’re just informed by disability.

Carolyn Kiel: That’s interesting. Yeah. And yeah, that whole concept of disability is represented in the film, but it’s not the main focus of the film.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Right.

Carolyn Kiel: Because I, I feel like a lot of the popular media is either it’s completely excluded from the narrative or it’s this whole focus of the narrative and it’s usually not a good focus a lot of times.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Yeah, absolutely. So it’s wild to me. Like, I didn’t even start using the word disability in reference to myself until the last couple of years. In fact, I fought it for a number of years.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: And now that I’m embracing it, I’m having all these realizations and it’s, it’s a wonderful blossoming experience of like accepting myself, accepting my shadows, and embracing these hardships and then giving power to those experiences to be able to help others.

Carolyn Kiel: And that’s interesting because I know as I’ve learned more about disability, it’s, it’s, even, even the word and the term, people are afraid to use it because I dunno, they just hear like the “dis” part and they’re like, oh, that means less than, so that’s insulting. I’ll make up some other term that, just like some euphemism, and I’ll use that instead. And so, and it’s been a very recent learning process even for me because we all grew up with like the euphemisms. So it’s, it’s been, it’s been interesting to learn. And so it’s good to embrace that word and realize that there’s nothing wrong with the word disabled or disability or anything like that.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Yeah.

Carolyn Kiel: When you write films, are they always based on your own life experiences or could just be anything, any topic?

Jeremy Andrew Davis: I, I mean, I think every writer has to have some basis in, in their own experience. I always write a diverse cast, and, and that’s part of the thing that I love about storytelling is I get to experience things outside of what I’ve experienced in real life.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: I, I don’t wanna tell auto biographical stories, so I create fictional characters that have elements of myself in them. And you know, I used to have very different views than I hold now. So I, I can sometimes create characters who hold these views that I now find toxic or whatever, and be able to just explore those ideas in the ways that I experienced them. And then also have understandings of how other people experience them. So yeah, I, I love exploring different perspectives and having different characters with different perspectives and, and, and maybe they have different perspectives that are both correct and they conflict or they have different perspectives, but, or the same perspective where they are going about that perspective in a way that isn’t helpful. And exploring those through story so that the audience can experience it. Because once you watch a movie, it, in some degree becomes a lived experience for you through osmosis, you know?

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: You didn’t technically live that experience, but you experienced it through somebody else’s life. And you can’t really do that through say, a, a self-help book or a description. And it’s why I take the approach that I take in my TikTok videos of two people talking to each other, because it’s more likely that you’re going to resonate with one of the characters and then you go on this journey and you experience the discovery of whatever the subject is, and it takes more work to do that. I could just sit in front of the camera and go, well, here’s all my logical arguments for this perspective, but it doesn’t resonate with as wide of an audience and it doesn’t sink into our psyches and our hearts as deeply. So I choose story so that people can experience that.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Story is a really powerful way to communicate. It’s probably our oldest form of communication as humans.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Yes.

Carolyn Kiel: Before our written language. So I think that resonates with most of us as we hear it. Yeah. So you mentioned writing characters. What is your process for writing characters for your film?

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Varied. Some writers I think might approach writing in the same way every time. That’s not the case for me. I will sometimes have an inspiration from just a, a scene will flood into my mind out of nowhere, and I’m like, Ooh, this is a cool scene. And I play in that and I experience it in my head. And then I’m like, okay, well what’s the bigger story around this scene? So I’ve written a story that was based on, on one scene. And I populate that with characters that make sense for that story.

So other times I’ll have an idea for a character and I’m like, oh, I would love a character that was having this issue or this point of view, but needed to do this or whatever. And then I’ll create the story around that. And then what characters will counterpoint them to help tell that story or that theme.

Other times it’ll be a theme. I wanna play in this theme. What speaks to me to explore this idea? And I’ll develop it that way.

I tend to write in genre. So sci-fi, fantasy, Western, even musical, those kinds of things. I don’t do horror. And I love creating my own world and my own set of rules that will have parallels. So I’m using analogy and metaphor and all those tools to draw those parallels so that people go, oh, that makes sense for our society. But there’s a level of distance there where it’s, it’s not so abrasive necessarily.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: And so, I, I choose characters that are fascinating to me, and, and oftentimes it’s almost as if the story dictates what needs to happen next. If I have started at the beginning of the story, which I don’t always do, sometimes I have the idea for the climax or the midpoint or something, but I’ll start wherever I am. And I’m like, okay, this character has this happen to them. They’re needing to get to their goal. What stands in their way? Oh, I need this kind of character to oppose their kind of character, to really maximize the themes that are being expressed here. And so I look at all of the elements of character within that.

And naturally what comes to me is just diverse casts of people with varying backgrounds, ethnicities, genders, gender expressions, sexual expressions, all of those. And then I have this beautiful cast of different peoples and perspectives that I can explore the inner workings of their relationships.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, that’s really interesting to have the, the story and coming up with the scene and the picture first, and then figuring out, well, which character and, and how do they interact and what do they need to get to their goal?

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Yeah. Oftentimes it’s more of a gut feeling than a logical process. I’ll be like, Oh, this feels right! And then as I play with it, it develops on its own. And oftentimes in my writing process, it doesn’t feel like I’m writing it. It feels like I’m looking through a window into another dimension, and the view becomes more and more clear to me the more I look into it, and I’m just transcribing it. I don’t think that’s actually true, but it feels that way. It’s like, I’m not writing this! I, I couldn’t write this! This is, wow! Look, I watched that thing happen! Now I’m gonna write it down.

Carolyn Kiel: Like it’s coming from somewhere else. But meanwhile it’s coming from somewhere inside you, but it’s the experience of like, you’re seeing it play out.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Yeah!

Carolyn Kiel: That’s so cool. That’s really cool!

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Yeah, it, it’s, it’s humbling too. I get to be a part of this creative process with the universe.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That’s really awesome. And I think it’s great that you’re able to integrate like a really diverse cast of characters in, in many, many of your films.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: It doesn’t feel right to me when it’s not.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. And I know a lot of the problems that we’ve seen over the years with media is that it is, you know, just not very representative a lot of times throughout history. And, and I’ve always been curious now that I am learning more about you know, the disability community and about media and the impact of media and how people are portrayed, how do you write a diverse group of characters if you don’t hold all those identities? And this kind of ties into like the whole, like what’s required to make media that’s authentic, if you as one person can’t possibly represent all of those identities?

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Yeah, it’s challenging. It’s very challenging. I can only write from my lived experience and, you know, I’ll have observations of other people’s lived experiences. But I, I often don’t get them right or I’m missing things. And truly I can’t write anything but my own lived experience. There’s just these characters that come together that seem like they’re outside.

So one of the things that I love about filmmaking specifically is that it is a collaborative process, and so that is a little bit easier. I can write the screenplay and I’ll get beta readers, and within the beta readers I select, or they volunteer. And I get as diverse a readership as possible, and I specifically will look for people within the lived experiences that I’m writing about. And so I’ll get feedback and that’s a multi-stage process where I’m doing revisions, that kind of thing.

And then there’s different stages and like if I’m making a short film and I don’t have some of the resources, I may not be able to pay for high end like sensitivity reads, but I’m also not doing major issues in some of the short films. So once I get to the point where I have a larger budget for like a feature film, those kinds of things. And I typically write epics. So, I have to tone down some of my voice of writing epics to make things that I can produce myself. But once I get to that point, I will be hiring on a highly qualified team of people to go through it with sensitivity reads of multiple people, of each of the perspectives, to make sure that it is equitable for those areas that I can’t specifically speak for.

And so it is challenging. And it’s challenging for people who are single creators. A good friend of mine is a Amazon bestselling novelist, and you know, he writes by himself, so he does the same kind of thing and gets sensitivity readers and gets what feedback that he can before putting out a book. And so we do the best we can and oftentimes we make mistakes and we get feedback. I get feedback on my TikTok videos all the time, and I’m like, Oh, I, I did not say that very well. Or, you know, any number of different things.

And so the way I think about it is like, it’s, it’s an ongoing conversation and the bigger the production, whether that’s a novel or a movie or whatever, the higher the stakes. But I also still try to view that as an ongoing conversation where, Oh, I’m taking that and I’ll improve next time.

And there’s different perspectives on this, but I want to also not have non-disabled people afraid to write about some of these experiences and avoid it all together. Because when you write about it, you are gonna make mistakes. And so we need to have an open dialogue and be gentle with those creators who are trying, and then those creators need to do due diligence. .

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. And that makes sense, especially for, you know, single creators or very small teams that you’re not able to like, bring on huge staff and, and you know, you work with the resources that you have. And it sounds like that, you know, as long as you’re continuously open to feedback and getting as much input as you can to make it as authentic as you can, that’s a really good way to go.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: And then once you get to the Hollywood level though, then we go, Hey, this needs to be on point and 99% of the time it’s not.

Carolyn Kiel: Right. Yeah, and that’s, that’s exactly where I wanted to head next is like looking at a big Hollywood production where like, you know, I don’t wanna say money is no object, but you have plenty of resources at your disposal. What’s really required for big media like that to make movies, other media that’s authentically representative of people, say people with disabilities?

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Absolutely. And a lot of these I think apply broader than than disability as well.

There’s two phrases that are often heard in the disability space and in, in all of the representation spaces. I did not come up with them, though I have tweaked them a little bit. The first one is “nothing about us without us.” I’ve added to the end of that to say “nothing about us without us in charge.” Because oftentimes what happens with, especially on these big studio productions, is they’re like, Hey, we have this thing that we’re doing. We’re gonna bring on one consultant, we’re gonna check that box, not really listen to them and move on. But see, we did our due diligence. And we just see that far too often. And it’s like, no, that consultant didn’t have veto power. They didn’t have the ability to say, No, we’re not going to do it this way because it’s not equitable.

And then the second phrase that is often said along with that is “more than one in a room.” And I’ve tweaked it a little bit to say “more than one in every room.” So that it’s not just like the writer’s room. That’s important, but like, do you have a producer? Do you have, you know, all throughout, a collaborative process of disabled voices who are being represented, helping to focus and make sure that the representation is equitable?

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: In my consultations, I like to go through a nine question list to get people thinking. And the, these are like the bare minimum, and they’re almost never done in Hollywood.

So the questions I ask are, number one, does it make the vast majority of those it represents feel, seen and heard? Simple, right? In theory. That can be pretty hard to achieve.

So number two, does it create an equitable view of those people with the disability represented? So those two seem very similar, but there’s some nuance of difference there because one is for the disabled community itself, feeling seen and heard. The other one is for the rest of society seeing this small section of the population in an equitable way.

Number three, is the representation accurate and is it representative of a common manifestation of the disability? So for autism, most of the autistic representations that I see in TV and film is the autistic savant. There are an estimated between 25 and 75 people on the planet who have an autistic savant. But that’s how autism is represented. And so when society keeps seeing this representation, it has the subconscious effect of identifying autism with the savant. And so people are like, Well, what’s your savant? And it’s like, we still have value even if we don’t have a savant. So the one way to handle that is if you are representing, say in this case, a savant, you explain that and make it absolutely clear to all of your audience that this is not a typical manifestation. So that’s a way to help it. But is that an equitable representation? Because it’s not an equitable representation of my autism. So, so there’s ways to, to do this little niche thing and still have more equitable representation, but it’s better to represent the vast majority of this people group.

Question four, does the representation actively combat ableism bias? So there’s a Netflix show called Love on the Spectrum that is autistic representation. And the ableism bias of society is autistic people are awkward. This show act accentuated the awkwardness by using editing techniques and music that made the awkwardness more pronounced than if the editing and music hadn’t been chosen. And so that’s not equitable. What an equitable representation would be is to say, Oh, our audience already thinks that these people are awkward. We’re going to purposefully choose music that is romantic, not awkward, to make their awkwardness seem normal and not awkward, so that we’re dismantling the ableism bias. And of course, that show won an Emmy for their editing.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Yeah.

Question number five, does the representation avoid harmful disability tropes, of which there are hundreds? So that’s a whole conversation that I have in that.

Question number six, did numerous people with the disability represented have key decision making positions in the production, including at the highest level of decision making? And this is where I go over with people, nothing about us without us in charge, and more than one of us in every room.

Number seven, where, you know, this doesn’t apply to books, but in film and social media, are the disabled characters played by actors with that disability? There are some exceptions to this rule, but in general, you wanna have authentic casting.

Question number eight, does the content use ableist language or ideas in a way that endorses or encourages them even indirectly? So for myself, it’s a challenge as a writer because I have characters who are ableist, and I have to ask myself this question, do these ableist characters reinforce the ableism? Or am I doing enough in the telling of the story to show that these are not appropriate perspectives to hold? I don’t want to be indirectly endorsing those ideas. And some of these take a lot of nuance and are ultimately based on perception. There’s no definitive black or white, yes it does, or no it doesn’t. So we have conversations to help get there.

And then last question number nine, is the content accessible for all? So one example that I use is, putting a warning that there’s flashing or strobing effects is not accessible. You didn’t make that accessible for someone who has photosensitive issues. To make it accessible, you have to create another version that people can access that is safe for photosensitive viewers, among other accessibility things as well.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Wow. That’s an awesome questionnaire. Did you develop that?

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Yes.

Carolyn Kiel: That’s so cool.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Yeah, through my own experiences and I, you know, the more I talk with people, the more I do consultations, I refine, add to it or make it a little easier to understand those kinds of things.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Cuz that really is a holistic way of looking at all of the potential, you know, all the potential pitfalls that you could run into as you’re trying to make media about, you know, specific issues and, and be inclusive and representative and authentic.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Right. And every single one of those questions, I can spend a whole day talking about one question.

Carolyn Kiel: Oh yeah.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Talking about the nuances of them and the gray area and how to navigate them and all those kinds of things.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm, absolutely. It’s funny, I don’t watch a lot of popular TV. So I don’t, I don’t watch Love on the Spectrum or Extraordinary Attorney Woo. Or a lot of ones that the autistic community talks about a lot.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Yes.

Carolyn Kiel: So I don’t know, I don’t have an opinion based on having watched it and seen it. But when you were talking about Love on the Spectrum, I was remembering one of your TikTok videos that you did on it. I watch those instead of the show. I just watch your TikTok analysis! Like what does Jeremy say about this show? Is this good?

And I mean, speaking of media representation, there are a lot of, or it seems like a lot of shows that are recent that have autistic representation, whether it’s, you know, allistic people doing it, or some autistic people, sometimes there’s some shows with an actor or two in there. Is there any media out there that’s getting autistic representation right, in your opinion?

Jeremy Andrew Davis: I will preface this with the caveat that, similar to you, I don’t typically watch the type of shows that have autistic representation. In fact, the only reasons why I watched Love on the Spectrum and Extraordinary Attorney Woo is because so many people in my audience were going, What do you think of this? And I’m like, Okay, I’ll watch it.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: I don’t really watch reality TV. Now, I do watch K dramas. So Extraordinary Attorney Woo, I’m like, Okay, you know, I wanna try this out. But I, I haven’t been able to finish it. That show specifically is like, I both like it and it makes me cringe and clench throughout it. And so it’s a very uncomfortable physiological experience for me to watch these shows, cuz I, I, I’ll finish an episode and I feel exhausted.

So most of the genres in which there is autistic representation are not things that I watch. I don’t typically watch sitcoms. I have heard a lot about Big Bang Theory. I’ve never watched it. I have no interest in watching it. And I’ve seen some clips and stuff, and I think for the time that it originally aired, it was pretty forward thinking. But there’s other shows that are dramas or sitcoms like that, that have come out that I’ve like watched a couple episodes and I’m like, I just, I know this show isn’t for me. It takes too much emotional energy for me to watch it.

What I would like to see is, you know, a sci-fi film with an autistic main character or a fantasy with an autistic main character, where the story isn’t about their struggles being autistic, it’s how does their autism inform their choices within this world? So like, I would love to see an autistic James Bond. Like, what would that look like? That could be cool. What would an autistic James Bond do differently? And that’s more of a thought experiment than a real, like, Yes, let’s make the next James Bond autistic. But it also points to, like the movie wouldn’t be about autism, it would just inform the character. It’s a part of the character’s identity, just like being tall would be, or being short or whatever the case may be.

There is a book series that I absolutely love, The Murder Bot Chronicles. And I was a little scared at the name at first, cuz I don’t like really intense, violent, gory stuff. I like action films, but not when it’s too much. And so I kind of had this on my book list for quite a while before it kept showing up different places and I’m like okay, I’m gonna give it a shot and I’ll put it down if it’s too much. It’s not quite lighthearted, but it feels kind of James Bondy or like, there’s some murder mystery type elements to it. So if, if you’re okay with murder mystery stuff, then you should be okay with this. There’s some killing obviously. But yeah, so, and I don’t wanna give away too much either, but it’s a sci-fi story where the main character is basically a cyborg. So it, it has a brain and some human tissue and things like that, but it’s also a robot with computer brain. And so it both thinks humanly and computerly. And what I find fascinating about it is that the main character is absolutely autistic. I’m like, this is, this is me.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: But the author didn’t set out to write an autistic character. And she was asked about it and she’s like, No, I was just writing from my own experience. So it sounds like she’s not been diagnosed or looked into autism for herself and I don’t want to claim that she is or that she isn’t. That’s not my place and I’m not inferring anything. But what she was able to put into this character so deeply resonated with me. I’m like, Oh, wow. This is great.

And I would love to, to see a story where the autistics are represented by humans and everybody else is, you know, something else. Because we’re always the alien.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Or the robot. Or the animal. You know, Doug from Up. Squirrel!

But in this case, like especially because she wasn’t intentionally writing it with that in mind, it’s just beautiful and I can’t wait for more of these books to come out. So that’s my favorite. That’s really one of the only ones that I’m like, this is amazing.

There are a few that, the mind blowing thing is that most of them are not necessarily intended as autistic, and I haven’t found one that I’ve seen, I’m sure there are some out there that exist, I haven’t found one where it’s put into the story: yes, I am autistic, and it’s, it’s deliberately said to the audience.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: And so I have a theory that there’s people who are accidentally creating autistic characters because either they’re basing them on themselves and they don’t know they’re autistic, or they’re basing it on their quirky friend and they don’t know they’re autistic.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: And so there’s a level of truth and honesty there. But when somebody goes to purposefully write an autistic character, they do research and find all the inaccurate information. And they write that, and then it’s like, No, this isn’t what autism is. Or it’s, you know, the extreme version. And I use extreme in quotations here because that’s society, that’s their view of what autism is. And it’s usually like co-occurring conditions, but they’re lumping it all together and saying this is autism. I want to see a lot more autistic characters where their autism isn’t the focus. They’re doing other things. They’re going on adventures, and so I’m writing those stories. And I’m hoping that there’s many other people that are writing those stories as well, and that they can come out and see the light of day.

Carolyn Kiel: That would be good to see a lot more representation like that. Like really interesting stuff. A lot of people in the autistic community, cuz a lot of times we’ll try to claim characters. Like I think there are several superheroes in the Marvel universe that we’ve decided we’re gonna claim.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Head canon.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Head canon. Like at least half these people are autistic.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Definitely. And what’s funny is the script that I was writing at the time when I looked into the autism thing. Once, once I found out I was autistic, I reread the script and I went, Oh, my main character is autistic. I didn’t know it! So I did it myself! And I, I wrote my main character as having social anxiety, like debilitating social anxiety because I’ve wrestled with that. And then I found out that, oh, no, it’s autism, and this is a, a thin slice. So like I have him going into a restaurant and like all the clinking of silverware and conversations, he can’t process what the person across from him is saying and he’s getting overloaded. And I’m like, Oh, right. That’s not social anxiety. That’s sensory issues. So I’m rewriting that script so that he’s coded autistic. And, yeah.

Carolyn Kiel: Wow. Yeah.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: It was a different character that I was intending to write autistic. Whoops!

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, it’s funny, I’ve talked to other creators who also are writing before they had a diagnosis and I had one woman who wrote, she has two main characters and one is autistic and one is ADHD and she’s both, and she didn’t realize it until she wrote them. She’s like, Oh, I wrote myself into these two characters!

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Yep!

Carolyn Kiel: That’s really cool. Wow. I also wanna definitely talk about your TikTok videos, cuz I always find that medium interesting because you have such a, a brief amount of time to get a story together. So that’s like a very different type of writing and, and film writing. What inspired you to get into creating like these micro videos on TikTok?

Jeremy Andrew Davis: There’s a lot of backstory to this. The simple answer to that question is, I liked what other people were creating and I wanted to just make something for myself for my own therapy of feeling heard. There were things that I wanted to get off my chest that I didn’t see other people saying anywhere, and so I started off just going like, I don’t care if anybody watches these. I just want to feel like I’ve expressed it so that I get it out of my nervous system.

And so there’s been several influencers that I’ve followed over the years and who have inspired me. But specifically the, the biggest influence was Connor DeWolfe. His is primarily ADHD content, if you’re not familiar. And he does the two character thing. Because I had seen other people like sit down in front of the camera and like talk to the audience and, and those are cool. And like, I love Elyse Myers’ stories. Those are always great. But it wasn’t until I saw Connor’s videos that I kind of got hooked and I was like, I’m going to do this approach because it, it resonated with my background in film, and then also my ideas on how to reach audiences in the most powerful and potent ways.

But I should also explain that this isn’t my first foray into social media. I’ve been a social media consultant since 2009. I’ve had several YouTube channels for clients that have done very well. I had a full-time job for a few years as the channel manager, content manager and influencer at a YouTube channel called Flite Test. And flight is misspelled, it’s F L I T E. And it was doing foam board, remote control airplanes mostly. So we did remote control flying things. And in my time there, I helped grow the channel to 1.6 million subscribers. And then they’ve continued to grow since I’m no longer there, of course. But in the meantime, I do a lot of consulting work, both in disability and in social media for different companies.

And so I’ve applied everything that I’ve learned in the social media space from 2009 to create my TikToks. And my first TikTok video that I posted had 11,000 views in the first couple days, and I’m like, Oh, okay! It’s like, I went into it going like, Okay, disability has gotta be a niche market. I’m not expecting to have a big audience. But I’m making them for myself anyway, so it doesn’t matter. And then I got that response. My next video had 10,000 and then I think it was like my fifth, or my seventh or something, video got over a million.

Carolyn Kiel: Wow.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: And I’m like, Okay, I am a TikToker now. I basically did a trial run too, of like, I don’t like to commit to something until I know that I can keep it going. So I was, I still am making the videos for myself, but it’s also with a little more of a disciplined focus. I’ve committed to this, so I’m gonna continue to do it. Whereas when I started it was like, I’m gonna see what kind of response I get and see how much time it takes and that kind of thing.

So yeah. Now I have 230 some thousand. And that is increasing all the time. Of course, as it, as it does!

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah!

Jeremy Andrew Davis: That’s how it works. Like you don’t usually go down! And I have several videos that have multiple millions of views and it’s just, it’s wonderful because this is the first time that I’m creating videos for myself. I’ve always been helping other people create videos for them. And to get that kind of support and to hear so many of the audience members talk about the impact that it’s having in their lives is, it’s amazing. It’s like, wow, I’m just talking to myself. I’m literally talking to myself! And it’s helping people. Cool! This is awesome. So it’s just, it’s wonderful to, to be a part of that. And I’m a part of the conversation.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. And it’s probably a whole new audience.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Absolutely. Yeah. And, and like my TikTok, obviously you’re able to grow followers a whole lot faster than other platforms like LinkedIn and Instagram and so forth, but I have audiences there too. It’s really interesting to see the different responses to different videos on the different platforms.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: and the different kinds of conversations that you have. And I love interacting with people on all the different platforms and getting new nuances and perspectives. Like when you get on LinkedIn, you don’t have the same mindset as when you get on TikTok. So the conversations are different and it’s, it’s cool seeing all the different ways that those manifest.

Carolyn Kiel: Definitely. And how do you pick the topics that you do for your TikTok videos?

Jeremy Andrew Davis: I don’t. My hyperfixation does.

Carolyn Kiel: Oh that’s cool.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Like I, I literally have, I think it’s up to 150 scripts written now, that I’ll get the idea, I’ll jot it down and like I don’t get to it, and then I go back to it. I’m like, Oh, that’s not pinging right now, so I’m not gonna make it. But I keep on writing them faster than I can shoot them. So I have a, a whole backlog of all of these ideas, which is a wonderful problem to have. And then sometimes something will resonate and I’m like, Oh yeah, I wrote that thing like three months ago. That’s really, I need to say that right now for myself. So yeah, I just, whatever comes to mind, whatever’s tugging at my heartstrings at the time, whatever I need to like, get off my chest, I make a video of, put it up and see what people say.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, and that’s great to have a list and you can just go through and be like, Okay, which one of these is speaking to me right now?

Jeremy Andrew Davis: And nine times outta 10, I write a new one and do that one! But yeah, it’s how the brain works.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Oh, that’s really cool. Yeah.

What are your goals for the filmmaking work and the media work that you do?

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Yeah. Ah, so many of them. The next step in my career is kind of that quote unquote breaking in. And in the filmmaking realm there are a lot of paths that can be taken and usually there’s a bunch of closed doors and so I have a lot of different irons in the fire that are ready to go. So, if a door opens over here, I’m ready to step through that door. Or if it opens over there, I can step through that one.

And so disability consulting is important to me. I want to help these big Hollywood companies get better representation both for us and for them, because it helps them too. And so maybe that’ll open some doors. But I also have my screenplays that I’ve entered into contests, so maybe a door will open there. So eventually I want to be writing and directing well funded epic stories, both TV and film. But I’m also not limiting to that. Like I, I plan on continuing doing the TikToks. I’m developing a podcast. I’m writing a few novels. So like, I just want to be creating all of these things that, for myself, are self-expression, and then for other people is for both their enjoyment and their empowerment.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. That’s fantastic. Yeah. And, absolutely needed. So that’s that’s really exciting. Really, really helpful.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Thank you.

Carolyn Kiel: Awesome. Yeah. Well, Jeremy, how can people get in touch with you if they wanna learn more about your work or see your videos or your films?

Jeremy Andrew Davis: The best hub to kind of find links to everything is my website. It’s www.JeremyAndrewDavis.com. So I have links to my TikTok and I have some of my short films up there. I have screenplays, which I only share the screenplays with industry professionals because some issues with just sharing it with the public . But yeah, you can get on there and see what I have to offer.

Carolyn Kiel: All right. Fabulous. I’ll put your website link in the show notes.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Thank you so much.

Carolyn Kiel: As we close out, is there anything else that you’d like our listeners to know or anything that they can help or support you with?

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Oh, that’s a good question. I think just keep listening to this podcast, keep interacting with all of the neurodiverse and disabled spaces and keep being a part of the conversation.

Carolyn Kiel: Fantastic. Thanks so much, Jeremy.

Jeremy Andrew Davis: Thank you so much for having me. It has been such a pleasure to be here and talking with you.

Carolyn Kiel: Great. Thank you.

Carolyn Kiel: Thanks for listening to Beyond 6 Seconds. Please help me spread the word about this podcast. Share it with a friend, give it a shout out on your social media or write a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast player. You can find all of my episodes and sign up for my free newsletter at beyond6seconds.net. Until next time.