Episode 215: Dissociative Identity Disorder – with Crystals Multifaceted

The episode transcript is below.

Carolyn Kiel: Welcome to Beyond 6 Seconds, the podcast that goes beyond the six second first impression to share the extraordinary stories of neurodivergent people. I’m your host, Carolyn Kiel.

Carolyn Kiel: Thank you for joining me today! I’m really excited to be talking about a topic that doesn’t get a lot of attention in conversations about neurodiversity – and that’s Dissociative Identity Disorder, abbreviated as DID. That’s the diagnostic name for it, but sometimes people who have DID will use the terms “plurality” or “multiplicity” to describe their experience.

My guest today, Crystals Lachman, will define DID, plurality and multiplicity at the beginning of our conversation. They also mention a few other terms commonly used in the plural community as they talk about their own experience of having DID. I’d like to introduce those terms now, so that you’re familiar with them when you hear them during our conversation.

Crystals describes themselves as a system made up of “people” within one body. They talk about when one or more of their people “switch” to the front of their consciousness (also called “fronting”), which means that those people are aware of and interacting with the world at that time. Their people will also switch away from the front to another part of their consciousness, where they may or may not still be aware of what’s going on at the front. You’ll get to hear more about what that’s like directly from Crystals today.

In Crystals’ case, they always have multiple people who are fronting, and their switches happen quickly – which makes their experience a little different than how the media typically portrays people with DID. We discuss some common stereotypes and misconceptions about DID and how harmful they can be to the plural community – and how the ways the plural community experiences DID are varied and diverse. We also talk about the much-needed support that Crystals provides to the plural community.

As a content warning, towards the end of this episode, Crystals mentions suicide in the context of talking about one of their workshops that helps individuals support their plural loved ones who are experiencing suicidal thoughts. If that’s a difficult topic for you, please use your discretion when listening to this episode.

If you enjoy learning about topics like DID and neurodiversity, then I bet you’d love my other podcast episodes too! Please subscribe to my podcast. I’m on all the podcast apps and I have a YouTube channel too! And if you find value or comfort in the conversations I have with my guests here, then I’d love your support – share this episode with a friend, like and comment on my social media, or even make a donation to this podcast on Buy Me A Coffee. You can find everything on my website, beyond6seconds.net. I really appreciate your support! It helps me keep this podcast running, so I can continue to bring you episodes with awesome guests like Crystals.

And now, here’s my interview with Crystals Lachman. Crystals, who has a master’s degree in counseling psychology, is the founder of Multifaceted Journeys, where they use their lived experience of plurality and healing with complex trauma and dissociation to bring education to providers and facilitate groups for plurals.

They serve as a moderator on The Refractory, a think tank for clinicians, researchers, peer support workers, and coaches with lived experience of Dissociative Identity Disorder, or DID, Other Specified Dissociative Disorder, or OSDD, and plurality. They’ve been a keynote speaker for the Plural Positivity World Conference.

Crystals started a podcast and Substack blog, both titled Therapist Interrupted, where they highlight stories related to getting through life’s interruptions, living with trauma and dissociation, and other topics related to multiplicity. Crystals, welcome to the podcast.

Crystals Lachman: Hi it’s so good to be here. Thank you for having me on.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, I’m very excited to be talking with you today. In your intro, I mentioned some terms that might be new to some of our listeners, things like dissociative identity disorder, other specified dissociative disorder, even plurality, multiplicity. Would you be able to kind of briefly explain those before we go into our interview today?

Crystals Lachman: Yeah, so let me start with explaining the term Dissociative Identity Disorder, which is a diagnosis in the DSM. About 1.5 percent of the population has it, according to the DSM. And what it basically entails is being more than one person inside one body. And that that is causing significant distress and dysfunction in your life.

And, so, part of that distress has to do with time loss. Like, you, you lose information about who you are and what happens throughout your life. OSDD is Other Specified Dissociative Disorder and so that’s more of a catch, category for people who don’t fit into any of the dissociative disorders in the DSM.

So the main thing where people don’t fit in a lot of times is, is the time loss. Like, which is, it was not defined as time loss in the DSM, which is forgetting beyond ordinary, like what you would expect for a person. You can go off on some of the different things. And, and those diagnoses is, a lot of times people get diagnosed OSDD, but they actually have DID, or vice versa. And there’s some flow. It’s, it’s complicated.

And the other term, plurality, is a larger umbrella term that is used in the community of people with lived experience and then getting to be in the larger community, which includes all forms of being plural. So all forms of being one, more than one person in a body whether or not it comes from trauma and, that is not necessarily disordered, although it includes the category of people who are experiencing distress.

Carolyn Kiel: Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for that overview. It definitely helps. I know within the community, there are different, there’s different terminology and vocabulary that gets used. So it’s helpful to have that intro. So thank you.

Crystals Lachman: Yeah no problem.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. So I would love to learn more about your story, your personal story.

So how did you discover your own multiplicity?

Crystals Lachman: It’s interesting to think about when I first discovered it, which I don’t know exactly, because dissociation, which is like not knowing about not knowing. But when I was, 19, I had been outside of my parents home for a year in college, and I had a, I had a head injury that got me, that was, I was really suffering a lot and, that increased the amount of support I was kind of getting from my peers. And then that kind of opened up stuff and I started remembering trauma.

And shortly after that I got into therapy and did some other work within a a spiritual context, a Christian context that was around like inner child, some inner child work. And so it kind of became clear to me at that point that like there was more than one, there was definitely some kids. They didn’t really conceptualize it as being multiple or plural or DID. And it was 11 years later that I, found a, a community and then I eventually found a therapist who diagnosed me with DID.

Carolyn Kiel: And through that journey, were you working in the mental health field or studying psychology at that time?

Crystals Lachman: Yeah, so I was, in my undergrad, I got a major or a minor in counseling psychology, and I also did an internship at a school with teens before. And then from there I went to graduate school and I got a degree in counseling psychology and a minor in child and adolescent development. And worked at a counseling center here, there, and I also worked in group homes. And I did a school based program, so I did another internship in a school. And then, eventually after I graduated, I worked as a classroom counselor. And so I got a bunch of my hours towards my marriage and family therapist degree during that time.

And I was undiagnosed. So I was in therapy. But people, every, like most of the therapists recognize the dissociation, but they didn’t recognize the multiplicity. So they knew I dissociated, but, and it came up like, does this person have dissociative identity disorder? But because they couldn’t identify different “people” and I didn’t present in that way that they thought that would look like, they didn’t diagnose it. They diagnosed me with borderline and depression and PTSD. And so eventually I, because I was trained as a clinician and I was like, okay, well, obviously I dissociate and nobody knows what to do with that. So I’m gonna look specifically for somebody who knows how to work with DID and, not DID but dissociation.

And so then I found a therapist who ended up being an amazing therapist and she helped me with, like she diagnosed me and helped me like understand it a little bit better.

Carolyn Kiel: Wow. And then, and that brings up an important point, is that many therapists, perhaps most therapists, don’t necessarily recognize DID because I, I think it’s still thought of as extremely rare, but it’s really not. You it’s it’s somewhat common like 1. 5%. I’ve heard 2 percent. That’s yeah, kind of common. So yeah.

Crystals Lachman: Yeah. I went to, I just started back at intensive outpatient program and met with a psychologist, and the psychologist said, “well, that diagnosis is extremely rare.” And I just looked at him and said, actually, it’s more prevalent than bipolar. And then I was like, somebody feisty came out and was like, you need to read your DSM. Like point blank, telling him like, you’re giving bad information.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, and I think there’s a lot of misdiagnosis as well from people who don’t recognize it.

Crystals Lachman: Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Carolyn Kiel: And I’m sure that everyone who has DID or, or is a plural kind of has their own different ways that they feel and experience that. But for you like what, what does it feel like being a multiple?

Crystals Lachman: I think for us, it’s, I use plural and non plural pronouns back and forth. That doesn’t necessarily mean anything, but it might. I don’t know. I mean, it’s hard. It’s, that’s a hard question to answer because I don’t know what it feels like not to be. So there’s no like, Oh, this is what it was like, like with depression or something. There was no, like, this is what it was like when I wasn’t depressed. And this is what it was like when I am. But I think that what has helped with that is being in groups and around other people who are plural or who are multiple.

Carolyn Kiel: If you know, what does it feel like for you when you “switch” or just interact with the world?

Crystals Lachman: I think that switching for us is a little bit different than what it is for some people and in what is portrayed on the media because we rapid switch a lot and we don’t ever front one person at a time. So, and we don’t always know who is fronting because that’s protective in some ways for us not to know exactly. But any time where we have been like, “okay, who’s here?” like, if we stop and ask that question, we’ll get like 5 to 10 names.

And that also is a way that we, I think, don’t lose time is, in the same, we don’t lose time in the same way that some people do, and that there’s a, it’s hard to, it’s complicated, there’s a like, I’ve like thought about this for a long time to try to like wrap my head around it, like there’s a continuation of narrative that the people in the front kind of can know about. And then kind of more in the back of the system, there’s like other stuff going on and the two, like with people from the back come to the front they don’t always know the stuff going in the back and the people from the, like it’s like I was trying to explain this to my friend of like walking through a door, like the memory of what happens in the back of the system kind of gets like erased, kind of, to the, like, front of the system, which is protective in some ways. But then, if something is shared in the front of the system, then the front kind of knows. So it’s like, interesting, and like, every system, like, operates a little differently.

But I, so I didn’t recognize time loss until I started talking with other people who are plural. And then, started recognizing that how we experience time loss is we lose tiny bits of time or pieces of stuff, rather than like suddenly coming to and being like, “Oh, what happened?” Like there’s a very, there’s like amnesia for amnesia to where like, if you ask me like, “well, what happened yesterday?” Then I’ll be like, “I have no idea,” but then somebody will tell me, and they’ll send the memories up. So then, I thought that was remembering, and I thought that was like, what everybody did. But then I, from being in community, I realized that, like, no, I actually lost, whoever was up was not there for that, but was able to access it, or the other person switched in, so that then they were there to answer the question. So we could kind of like piece stuff together in a way that is not obvious that we’re losing time.

Carolyn Kiel: Okay, yeah, that that’s interesting. And as you said, everyone’s experience with their own plurality is different in terms of how their people are. And when you’re talking about fronting, you’re meaning that the people who are literally like in the front who are aware and sort of interacting with with the world at that time.

And then there are, it sounds like other people who may or may not be able to hear what’s going on. So it’s almost like people on stage and then maybe people backstage who can kind of hear and then people in the green room who don’t really know what’s going on on stage and maybe a switch. I don’t know.

But yeah, that’s really interesting.

Crystals Lachman: Yeah, kind of. And, and it goes the other way too. Like the people on stage don’t always know, like what’s going on, like backstage or, or somewhere else, which in part that might just be logistics because it’s a lot going on all the time.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah.

Crystals Lachman: So.

Carolyn Kiel: Wow. Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing more insights into your, your experiences of that.

So once you discovered your own plurality, you kind of started at some point your own healing journey.

So, I guess like, how did you find the support that you needed to start your healing?

Crystals Lachman: Well, connecting with that therapist really helped. She took us through our interview, I forget which one it was, the a long interview. And that gave us words to talk about what was going on. Because before that we didn’t have the, the language or concepts to even be able to like explain or identify what was going on. And we, through working with her, we met a lot of the people in our system.

And then, we were going to a wellness center and started meeting a couple other people who were multiple there too. And then we started a group in our house, in person group in our house, this is like forever ago. And that group eventually dissolved. And then right before we started with that therapist, we found an online community, a text based online community. That was part of us like discovering, it was one of our teens kind of popped out and spent all day like chatting with another teen and that was like a new experience for us.

And then in 2020 we joined some of the, the Redwoods. They are another system that, that did some groups. So we joined some of their groups. And then the Healing Together Conference by Infinite Mind in 2021 was virtual. And so at that point we were able to attend for the first time and got connected to some people there.

And so we kind of built community through all of that, and have connected. And so now probably at least half of our conversations are with other people who are plural, almost all of our conversations are with people that we’re out to. But also I want to say that we do not feel like we have found enough what we need as far as the, like, processing the trauma, even though we have, I think, a good therapist right now, she is getting once a week consultation to try to be able to better help us and I think we’re, we’re needing some more, help than what we’re knowing how to get.

And so that is for so many people the case, even when you have good therapy, even when you have like, it’s just the trauma that some people have, it just, it requires a lot for the healing and it’s really hard to find and get that. And you go kind of in and out of what you’re needing. But it’s, it’s even with, like, I’m pretty savvy, I think, as far as, like, finding therapists and getting, you know, getting what I need, but it’s still been extremely difficult.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, the healing process, it sounds like, can take a very long time, and part of that is finding the right supports and how your support needs may change over time as process. Yeah, absolutely.

And you were talking about connecting with other Plurals, and this is something that that I’ve been learning about as I as I talk to more people who are who are plurals, is that there really is a plural community. Many I’ve found online, probably in offline worlds as well.

How did you connect with the plural community?

Crystals Lachman: Well I mean first found out about the Healing Together Conference because there was somebody in this on, I don’t even know how I found that online community! Because this was back in like 2010

Carolyn Kiel: Oh,

Crystals Lachman: and I don’t even know, I don’t know if I just searched for it or what, but I really liked it because it wasn’t like a Facebook group.

There were a lot of Facebook groups, but it had, it was a forum. And so it had different categories, so it was organized better for me in a way that I could just like, but it was all text based. And I feel like video didn’t really, I mean, I guess I maybe connected with the Plural Association. And I think they had their first conference in, like, 2019. Um, but I had already found them. I mean the internet is how. But then I also have done a lot to create community and build community

Carolyn Kiel: That’s really cool. Yeah, I think I know there is or was a lot of community on on Twitter and I’m sure on other other social media platforms as well. But yeah, back in 2010, you know, we had the internet, but not not as many forums or ways to connect as as as people do now.

Crystals Lachman: And since the lockdowns like so many people learned how to do video that, that it’s like now, like I have a Zoom account and so I can just be like, okay, let’s have a group! Like the accessibility of peer to peer organizing has just exploded to where people are like, “Hey, I connected with you at this thing. Let’s, let’s have a Zoom chat.” You know, and then you can do that with anyone in the world. And so the whole, I think the opportunity for community has really opened up and also for developing like one on one friendships.

Carolyn Kiel: That’s awesome. Yeah, it’s a application of technology that we’ve had in past couple of years to be able to connect. Yeah, yeah.

You also put together other resources that help people connect, and I’d love to learn more about that. So you are the founder of Multifaceted Journeys, and I know you have a website of that name and other resources and services and supports that you offer.

So yeah, tell me, tell me about that and what inspired you to create Multifaceted Journeys?

Crystals Lachman: So I was working for a community mental health agency as a peer supporter and I, okay, let me see where does this start. So I went to school to get licensed. I didn’t manage to do that because I needed to work on my own healing. And I was unemployed for eight years working full time on healing.

And then I got this job and I thought it was going to be a clinical position. They switched me at the last minute into a peer position, which was a big surprise because I didn’t realize that, but was the right thing for me. But then, when the lockdown happened all of our groups, because I primarily did groups, got canceled. And so we started doing one on one calls. And then that kind of, like, reminded me that I, like, actually really like one on one and I like, it just, I don’t know, shifted something for me in some ways.

And then eventually we brought the groups back online, back online. But as part of that, I was like, well, we need to send them something because we used to send a calendar with all the groups. So we started a newsletter. And in the newsletter, when it came to be, I think it was plural, it must have been Plural Pride. When Plural Pride came in July, I wrote an article and I came out in the article. And before that, for two years prior to that, I was advocating to get them to do a training on, on DID, which was incredibly difficult. They eventually they did one.

But so I came out in the newsletter and then, I started getting more connected with like other therapists, like therapists with DID. And then I started just really wanting to do more with that. And anytime I tried to do something with it, there would kind of be this pushback of like, you’re just focusing on your diagnosis. Like, before I came out, it was like, well, we don’t have clients with DID. They all have schizophrenia, which is curious. But then after I came out, it was like, you’re focusing on your own diagnosis and we need you to do stuff for everybody. And I just started getting more, like, really wanting and feeling a pull towards serving that community.

So I thought well, maybe I’ll go back and I’ll get licensed and so I, that was kind of my idea. But then there was gonna be more complications than I anticipated with that. And so then I decided to start Multifaceted Journeys and have been building that for the last couple years and now do several groups a week there and also training trainings for therapists.

Carolyn Kiel: Great. So, yeah. So I would love to learn more about the, the type of services you offer.

Crystals Lachman: Yeah, I’m happy to talk about them.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah absolutely! So first of all, you you support the plural community directly through your website, sounds like through building that community. Could you tell me more about that?

Crystals Lachman: Well, one of the decisions I made was to not have a text based community, mostly because I don’t want to moderate it. Because it can get really like just a lot and I’m not the best at that. So, I have groups. People have to join, and it’s complicated because it’s in gift economy and it’s how I am earning money to live, but also I don’t earn a lot because I, I don’t turn anyone away. Everybody has to pay at least $2. And then, okay, what am I saying about this?

So, so most of the groups are, are on Zoom. They’re pretty small. Some of them are, are weekly. Some of them are a couple of times a month. And then I have been trying to have a a in person art group and an in person walk. And that has been very slow to take off because part, in part, because I’m not super good at advertisement and, and that side of it, because I’m just trying to, like, do, I’m like, 1 person trying to, like, run a whole wellness center out of my pocket practically with no finances. So, it’s, it’s been a lot and it’s been a journey. But some of, like, the groups have now been around for 2 years! And so that’s pretty amazing.

I would love to do, build more in person stuff, which is part of why even if it’s just one person, like I, I hold those groups because it’s like the world needs it, but the world isn’t quite ready for it. And so I’m like, we have like one or two people that come. And it’s like, this is important work that I think is valuable and so, I, I will keep doing it as long as it feels like in alignment for me. Yeah, And I can talk about any of the, some of the other groups as well if you’re interested.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, absolutely. Because you, you support you know, other people who, who are plurals. As part of those support groups, is it mainly peer support and community, or do you provide counseling services directly to people who are plurals, or help them find therapists who are educated in plurality?

Crystals Lachman: Well, originally, it’s really interesting when I think about this because this did not actually take off. But originally, even like the under working title of my website originally was how to find a therapist, because there’s a huge need for therapists who can help treat DID.. And, the, like, there’s not a lot of resources, it’s super hard to find somebody, and I mean half the time you have to end up training them, which is just where we’re at.

So, I saw that nobody has a job helping people find therapists. Like, I’ve never heard of anybody actually having that as a job. So, I thought, oh, well, I’ll do this and try to fill this, this need. But people haven’t really, a couple of people have taken me up on it. I’ve helped a couple people find therapists, which is like a coaching service where I meet with people, talk about what they’re looking for, what they’re needing, and then I either give them direct referrals or help them go through the process of finding referrals. And then we talk about it, like, how did it go meeting with the therapist? I give them questions to ask. I also have a video on this.

So I don’t do, I don’t do therapy because I’m not a therapist and I think a lot around, like, where those lines are. Sometimes I think they get a little blurry between, like, coaching and therapy and either direction. But I try to be really clear that I’m not doing therapy. I’ve had people come to me who wanted, basically wanted me to do therapy in kind of an undercover way and that was not something that I was gonna do.

So I do, if I, most of my work is groups or it will be a like short term focus on a specific thing that I’m helping them with, like sleep coaching or something like that. Which I, some of this is also, I can work with people who are not like that, that, that person who came to me for that was not somebody who is multiple. So I do some stuff just for whoever wants what I have to offer. Like, I did a class on, like, discovering the joy of play, and that was on the beach, and we did all the stuff, and it wasn’t necessarily people who are plural, even though it kind of, it’s kind of an “in” for people that aren’t quite sure, too.

So, I have some services that are just for anybody who is a member, can go to them if they, if they want it. And I’ll start certain groups, how I do it is if somebody wants a group, then I’ll talk with them, see if it feels right for me, and then I’ll start it. And those are like short term courses, and then I have, lost my thought, then I have some that are specifically for people who are plural.

And and then I have one group, the internal parenting group, that is for anybody with like parts. So that is a group where anybody who identifies like, Oh, I have an inner child or I have an inner teen. I don’t know if I’m plural or if this is just like internal family systems, or like some other thing. I don’t know if I’m multiple or not, but I think I could use help working with my inner child. So people can go to that group, and they don’t have to be, identify as plural. So they can kind of feel it out. And I let everybody self identify. So there’s no like criteria, like if you feel like you belong then then you know you can come.

Carolyn Kiel: That’s great. Yeah. And do you also work with families of plurals at all, and what’s that like?

Crystals Lachman: I’ve worked a little bit with, with family members, not a whole lot. I did a training that was just open to anybody and a family member came, it ended up being a one on one. And then I have a training that I developed that I was doing for kind of supporters and providers, but the person who came was a supporter, around working with suicidality and empathic listening and how to, like, handle those situations, which can be really difficult for both providers as well as supporters. I am, like, want to work with, with family members or supporters. I think it’s a big, a big need. I think that suicide training is probably the one that I have most geared to that population.

The other thing that I have that I think I have not done, but would be useful is I help people create mental health advanced directives. So, it’s like a, a document that has some legal standing where when you’re not in crisis, you can say what you want if you get into the hospital. And so that could be something that could be useful to do with like a supporter and the, the person who’s struggling. Because then the supporter could know, like, this is what the, how the person wants you to intervene in these situations. So you get consent. And for situations where people, like, if somebody’s gonna hurt themself, then sometimes, like, the person’s not in a place to give consent for things in the same way as if they were not in that mindset. I think it’s really important, especially with trauma survivors to, as much as possible, like have consent. And so if, if a family member or supporter or therapist can know like what the person’s wishes are when they’re not in that situation, then they can better know how to respond.

Carolyn Kiel: I see. Okay. Yeah, Wow. And you mentioned a training related to suicide. Can you talk more about that?

Crystals Lachman: Yeah, it’s called, what did I call it? Empathic Attunement for Suicidal Experiences. And it, it’s a two hour training. It has a lot of role plays. Most of my trainings have a lot of role plays because I see that as where it kind of is like, you actually practice when you’re outside of the situation. Which also makes people nervous. People get very nervous about role plays. So with that training, I focus a lot on being present and providing the attunement. Because especially if somebody has relational trauma, one of the most grounding and, and resourcing things is to know that they’re not alone with it.

And so people will be like, “well, I can’t fix it. I can’t.” Like, people get really get into fix it mode or they get really scared, and they don’t realize that just you being there is doing something. So that’s a big part is, is teaching people how to ask questions, how to sit with stuff, how to be with somebody who’s not talking, how to, like, resource.

And then the other big part of that is around boundaries. Because a lot of people who have complex trauma and really difficult situations will be chronically suicidal for decades. And so, that’s not something that people can sustainably, and almost every suicide training will teach you, like, don’t ever leave somebody who is suicidal by themselves. But what I’ve seen happen, not so much in talking with people in the plural community, but more in my own experiences of like having been hospitalized and talking to other patients and just having a lot of friends with mental health issues is what, what happens is people do not set their own boundaries and completely burn themselves out, and then they leave the relationship, because they can’t handle it sustainably for decades. And so for me is really, and I personally had that happen where, where I’ve lost friendships and stuff where people did not set their own, take care of themselves. The people didn’t take care of themselves. And so I’m pretty passionate about helping people like recognize when they can and cannot be there for somebody, so that they can show up over the long term. And do it in a kind and supportive way too, but also realizing your limitations. And so that’s, that’s heavy and hard for people to think about because you don’t want to think about leaving somebody when they’re really suffering because of something that seems much less important and is probably less important. But also like, I have known so many people that have lost all their relationships because of this. And then they’re completely, they’re just alone. They don’t have anybody. And it’s tricky, it’s hard.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. That’s really important because I feel like, you know, certainly nowadays that everyone knows someone who’s in some sort of crisis or is in, has been in some sort of crisis themselves. And we just don’t learn as people who may know someone who’s in crisis what to do. And you know, so I think, I could totally see how people, you know, try different things or they get into fix it mode and then they, they kind of burn out and they don’t hold their own boundaries because they’re so concerned about the other person. So that’s just really valuable for you to be able to kind of share with them, like what support they can reasonably give and how they can take care of themselves at the same time..

Crystals Lachman: Yeah. And sometimes, sometimes support looks like, “I have to work right now, but you can sit in my living room.” You know, sometimes it doesn’t always look like the intensity that we think, we think of.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Even small things. Even, yeah. Even just, you know, someone knowing that you’re, that you’re there for them and that you care for them and you’re thinking of them can be a, can be a type of support. So yeah, those are a lot of really valuable services and support that you offer to the community and their, and the friends and family and everything. That’s really great.

I wanted to ask you, because this, when I talk with people in the plural community, sometimes this comes up. Whether it’s through the media or just like sort of common assumptions that people have about dissociative identity disorder or plurality. I think people kind of get a lot of stereotypes and misconceptions. What are some of the biggest misconceptions about multiplicity that you’ve either heard maybe in your interactions with, with people or just ones that you hear a lot that you have to kind of debunk with people?

Crystals Lachman: Well, the biggest one is the one I already already mentioned, which is that it’s rare. That’s fairly, I mean, DSM stats are good at debunking that one. Which I’m glad that the stats line up with that. But that’s, that is one that is like pretty prevalent, like extremely prevalent. So helping people understand that, and that it doesn’t always look like what you think it looks like.

So I mean that would be the other one is that, that you may or may not be able to recognize it. You may or may not be able to recognize switches. Even close friends can’t always recognize that. Just the level of masking that happens, and looking like you’re one person. The amount of energy that people unconsciously, mostly, I think, have learned to do. Most of the time, it’s not something that you would recognize.

Another thing is, well, the stigma is one. Some people don’t understand how much stigma there still is around it. So they will, like, not always realize that outing somebody as being DID, it could be a problem. But people still lose their jobs and relationships and education, like there still could be consequences.

What was another one? I think another, well, another one is like, I think this happens more like in the clinical world, where there will be an idea of, people will like have a couple of clients that have DID, and then think that that’s representative of a larger group. It’s interesting because there’s a lot of similarities, like that are just things that are just similar between people who are multiple, even if it doesn’t come from trauma or people have different experiences. But then there’s also that every system is unique and can be completely different. And you really start to see that when you start talking to a lot of people. Like, oh, yeah, there’s all these similarities, but then there’s also differences.

I think for people who are a multiple, recognizing that just because you don’t look like what you see in the media or what you see in the group that you’re in, that doesn’t mean that your experience isn’t valid. Because stick around long enough and you’ll probably find somebody else who has a similar experience. And maybe they aren’t talking about it because it’s not talked about. So I think those are, those are a couple of the things.

And then the like, ideas around time loss and stuff. That it just doesn’t always look the way it’s portrayed. Because it tends to be portrayed in a more sensationalized way, that you don’t always get the inner experience.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. That’s important. I think, well probably with a lot of neurodivergence as well, so much of it is an inner experience that the outside person just can’t see. They only see certain things and make assumptions based on that. So yeah.

Crystals Lachman: One, the other one is, you know, that, that people with DID are dangerous. That’s the other big one because it’s such an easy horror movie trope. It’s like, that’s just lazy writing, I think. Oh, the person’s DID, they’re actually doing all this stuff, but it’s like really, really damaging and harmful.

And then the other one that kind of floats around is that people with, I say more DID because it’s more like those communities, that they won’t be able to function in group and that they should not be interacting with other people with DID because they’re going to be triggering each other. And, yeah, that happens. People get triggered and you work through it. But I think that is definitely a myth that that is pretty prevalent is that that group is not going to be a good situation for people with DID. Yeah. It actually is if people know how to facilitate group!

Carolyn Kiel: Mm hmm. Yeah, that lot of sense. No, absolutely. Wow. And then I wanted to get your thoughts on this as well. And it might depend on who in the plural community you ask the opinion of. But I think a lot of assumptions might be that, in order for someone to heal from their trauma, a, a, a plural system would need to be unified and that that is the ultimate goal.. But I, from the, the community that, that I’ve heard from, it’s also a lot of people saying that no, being plural is just a, a, a state of being and it’s, it’s something you don’t have to, you can heal and still remain a plural. So what are your thoughts on that?

Crystals Lachman: My thoughts on that are, it depends on the system. So there are some people, I’ll say people, “bodies” that are, for whatever reason for them, healing is, is integration or final fusion where everybody comes together. I think that is rare. I, I don’t think that that is common, but I do know that it happens. And when it happens, it’s usually not forced. It’s usually a process that just kind of happens.

And then another, like, lesser degree of that would be that somebody, that individual system members, like, like come together. So it’s not like the whole system becomes one person. But that different system members like, like merge with each other and come together. And I think that when those happen, they usually happen organically, and they happen because that’s what the system needs. And that if it’s forced, then, then it’s, it can push everybody into hiding. And so you’ll, you might have somebody that’s like, “Oh, I’m integrated.” But what actually happened was there was pressure. They felt like that was healing. And so the system kind of shut down and everybody kind of said, “okay, well, we’re not a system anymore. We’re one person. We’re done with that or whatever.” But, but then there’ll be a crisis or something will happen and it turns out, oh yeah, they’re all still there.

So I think it really depends on each person. And I don’t know if it also depends on some like neuro wiring stuff. I think some brains are just wired for multiplicity because I don’t think it’s completely dependent on trauma and I think some brains are just like wired for multiplicity and some brains aren’t. And so I think it’s whatever is healing and best for that system.

And, and I think it can also be like where, people will be like, “Oh, well, they had another split” or “they have more people now” or, or something and see it as a bad thing. And it’s like, well, actually, it’s what the system needed to do to cope with the situation they’re in now. And so that was like, we had in 2020, we had one of our, our, two of our people kind of became four. And for us, it was like, great, now we got more adults who can like help out with some stuff. So it was like, it was like, okay, we, we needed that. There was so much pressure externally of what we were dealing with that we needed that.

And then right now our system is going through a whole shuffle where we don’t really know exactly what’s going on and everything’s like weird right now.

So I think, I think for therapists and for supporters and for people with lived experience, like hanging in for the process, and I also truly believe that there is system intelligence of like, even, even with certain kinds of trauma where, you know, systems have been intentionally created, I still think that there is something in the human psyche that has a drive towards healing. And that if given the right supports, that that’s the natural state of where things will go. And for some people, that looks like developing more people. And for some people, that looks like people coming together. And sometimes people, it looks like staying the same and learning to work together better.

So, that’s a long answer to that question. It’s, it’s a great question that’s often asked and discussed. But also, I will also say that I think the view of most people in the plural community and definitely the view for me and my groups is that if you are integrated, you still belong.

So, I think that that is important that there not be a, stigmatizing in that way either: that well, now, now you’re integrated, so now you’re no longer a part of the community. Because I think you’re still have the experience in neurology of multiplicity, even if you’re now one person and living as one person.

Carolyn Kiel: It’s very nuanced. And so that’s really important for people to realize. And, you know, part of yeah, just realizing the diversity and experience Mm within the plural community and how people do it, do experience that. Absolutely. Wow. Well, that’s great.

Well, Crystals it’s been great talking with you. What’s the best way for people who might want to get in touch with you if they just want to learn more about the type of work that you do?

Crystals Lachman: One way is my website, MultifacetedJourneys.com. That’s the best way to get a quick overview of the services I provide and, you can get in touch with me there. You can also email me directly at Crystalssmultifaceted at protonmail dot com. And then the other way is that I think is a good way to just get more of a feel of what I do and who I am is to tune into my podcast, which is Therapist Interrupted. And I interview a lot of different people who have different interruptions in their life. I interview some providers. I interview other people who are multiple. And I also have a substack by that same name, Therapist Interrupted. And I I don’t write a whole lot. I’ve gotten busy with other stuff, but I do post some stuff there. So that’s, and those, those are like free and accessible and anybody can like, you don’t have to jump through like hoops in order to like attend my groups, aside from a couple that I do, I do a couple a month that are open to anybody where you don’t have to join.

And then if you join or if you let me, if you let me know that you want information, I can, I can put you on a email list and then send updates. I don’t send a whole lot of updates, but

Carolyn Kiel: That’s awesome. Yeah thank you, I’ll put a link to your website and your email and those resources in the show notes so that people can get to there.

So yeah, Crystals it’s been great. You know, as we close out, is there anything else that you’d like our listeners to know or anything that they can help or support you with?

Crystals Lachman: Well, help and support is I definitely need at wanting to grow the work that I’m doing. The work I’m doing definitely needs financial support, which it’s a little complicated because we don’t give tax deductions. It’s complicated. It’s a little complicated, but even if people like were inclined to like get to know me and give like $20 a month or something, that would be a big help. Because the people, a lot of people I’m serving don’t have the finances. And I’m trying to support myself, which is hard doing this.

And then, the other thing is, I’m also part of The Refractory, which it was mentioned briefly in the intro, which is it’s a bunch of people with lived experience that are really trying to kind of remake the face of mental health where it comes to DID. And so there’s a donation button there, and we’re hoping to set up more, set up some trainings and stuff to where we’re the ones doing more of the trainings. If there’s any clinicians, peer supporters, researchers, or coaches who have lived experience of plurality, then you’re welcome to join us over there. There’s the application.

And then I guess I like to, like, leave people with a message of hope, which is like, you’re valuable and whatever you’re going through, like, it matters and it’s important. And, things can get really hard and, just that hope that people can find community and find people that they connect with.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Thank you. And it sounds like you’re doing a lot of really great work to help people find that community and those resources that’ll help them. So yeah, thank you so much for that. And thank you again for being a guest and sharing your, your story and your work on my show.

Crystals Lachman: Yeah, thank you so much for having me.

Carolyn Kiel: Thanks for listening to Beyond 6 Seconds. Please help me spread the word about this podcast. Share it with a friend, give it a shout out on your social media, or write a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast player. You can find all of my episodes and sign up for my free newsletter at Beyond6seconds.net. Until next time.