Episode 118: Podcasting, creativity and storytelling in 2020 – with Laura Joyce Davis

On the Beyond 6 Seconds end of year episode for 2020, host Carolyn Kiel talks with fellow podcaster Laura Joyce Davis, the host of the Shelter in Place podcast. We discuss our experiences podcasting in 2020: how it has helped us cope with the challenges and isolation of this year, inspired our creativity, and allowed us to make connections and share powerful stories. Plus, we discover our mutual background in a cappella singing, and how it impacts the way we podcast!

Learn more about the things we reference during the episode:

• Listen to Laura’s podcast, Shelter in Place, at shelterinplacepodcast.info
• Goodnight America (song by Miko Marks)
• Podcast conferences: She Podcasts Live Conference and Werk It Festival
• Carolyn’s a cappella singing group, The MetropoliTones
• Laura’s solo song in her a cappella group (Tangled Up in Blue) that was included in the Best of College A Cappella 2002 collection.

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The episode transcript is below.

Carolyn Kiel: Welcome to Beyond 6 Seconds, the podcast that goes beyond the 6-second first impression to share the extraordinary stories and achievements of everyday people. I’m your host, Carolyn Kiel.

Carolyn Kiel: Now you can see the video of this interview, and many of my other recent interviews, on the Beyond 6 Seconds YouTube channel. Just go to YouTube and search for Beyond 6 Seconds. And while you’re there, please click the red Subscribe button under the video. Thanks so much!

Carolyn Kiel: Welcome to the Beyond 6 Seconds end of year show for 2020. So today’s episode has a bit of a different format than usual. You know, this is such been such a strange and challenging year. And until now, I haven’t really had much time to reflect on it or to talk about my own experiences with it on the podcast. And since I typically talk with other people on my show, I’ve invited one of my podcasting friends to talk with me about her experiences podcasting this year. So we’ll sort of be interviewing each other and sharing our various experiences. So I would like to introduce to my listeners, my podcasting friend, her name is Laura Joyce Davis. She’s a Fulbright scholar and award-winning fiction writer whose life with three young kids in California was turned upside down by the COVID-19 pandemic. In response, she created her podcast called Shelter in Place, which is about coming together in a world that pulls us apart. And today we’re going to be talking about and sharing our experiences with our podcasts in 2020. So Laura, welcome. And thanks so much for being on my show today.

Laura Joyce Davis: Thank you so much for having me. This is so fun.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, this is great. I, you know, I’m really excited to, to learn about your experiences and share mine. You know, we. Our podcasts I feel are, you know, they’re, they’re different in themes in terms of how long we’ve been doing them and our focus areas. But I think there’s a very natural synergy in sort of the spirit behind both of them for us. So I’m excited to, to talk more about that as well.

Laura Joyce Davis: Yeah, me too. I think we’re, we’re covering a lot of similar emotional territory in our podcasts and yeah, I’m excited to hear more about yours as well.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah absolutely. So, yeah, I’ll just, I’ll give a quick overview of mine. You know, my listeners may or may not know, sort of the, the behind the scenes of my podcast. So Beyond 6 Seconds was something I started almost three years ago in January, 2018. It’s kind of a creative project. I wanted to be able to just learn about people’s stories and share a lot of stories that people weren’t hearing day-to-day on like social media and how you know just out in the world. And I got into just profiling, started off with my friends and then just really expanded my network, looking for those stories of people who are either overcoming big challenges or pivoting or changing, or really shaping their careers. Because career development is kind of an interest of mine. I work in the learning and development area, so I’ve always been fascinated with that. And. You know, three years later, I’ve interviewed over a hundred people. I’ve got over a hundred episodes and, you know, I really started to help share other people’s voices and, you know, kind of try to bring the world together a little bit during, all of the challenging times of the past three years. So, yeah, Laura, I’d love to learn more about your podcast Shelter in Place.

Laura Joyce Davis: Yeah, thank you. Well, it’s, your description of Beyond 6 Seconds and particularly your interest in that pivot moment of, you know, people changing their sort of career path is a very natural segue to really the story behind Shelter in Place. I think the best way to describe what the podcast is is it’s a strong memoir, you know, very much storytelling based. but then also interviews woven into that. And I had been working as a writer, primarily fiction writer, but also, you know, doing freelance work and various non-fiction projects for I guess about 20 years. I have my MFA in fiction and moved to Oakland, California 16 years ago because of that. And then we’ve been there ever since, but at the beginning of the pandemic, I’m also a mom of three. I’ve got three little kids. So like many people in the world. I overnight had all three children home with me. And, my kids are still little, but two of them are school age. And then the youngest was in preschool. And in the very beginning, the idea for Shelter in Place actually came to me the day before the Bay area started sheltering in place. So March 16th, I had the idea, I thought this will just be sort of this little project that I do for the sake of history. Right. I knew this was going to be a significant moment in our world. I didn’t know how significant at that point, of course. And because I had already been working on another podcast, I had, you know, the tools to be able to, I knew a little bit enough about a podcast about how to start a podcast. So March 17th, that very next day I started episode one and my idea was, I’ll do this six days a week. I’ll do a daily podcast, six days a week. It’ll be, you know, a three-week project. That’s what I thought. And of course, four months later I was still going and kept up that pace, you know, which was its own story for four months and ended season one with a hundred episodes. And in that time, it really, it, you know, it became about more than just the writing of the podcast. It was really a reflection of what was going on in my life because, you know, my own world kind of got turned upside down. My husband lost his job a couple of weeks in. We ended up having just kind of a series of losses in our family and in our community. And. Because I was doing it six days a week, I was sort of having to decide each day, am I going to go there with these hard moments, especially, or am I going to put up a wall? And the thing about doing something every day is if you want to keep it fresh and authentic, you kind of just have to dive in and be willing to grapple with some hard stuff. And then of course at the same time, our world was going through a lot of loss and change. And, you know, I, I had no idea when I started it, that George Floyd would be killed and, you know, Ahmaud Arbery and Breonna Taylor and the whole Black Lives Matter movement. And that was very much a vibrant thing in my city, in Oakland. I mean, there were protests all over. We were going to some of them. And so, because I was doing this daily podcast, I was processing not just my own story, but really these larger questions that our world was facing and in our country in particular. And so pretty quickly, the theme of Shelter in Place, really became how do we look at this world where there is so much brokenness and there is such a deep divide, especially in our country right now. And how do we figure out how to have real connection with people in the midst of that? And not getting on another zoom meeting, because we’ve all kind of, I think, gotten exhausted by that it has its place, but it’s, I don’t know about you. I don’t, you know, I’m not looking for more, well, this is lovely. This is an exception, but I’m not, you know, typically I’m not looking for more ways to connect on zoom because I’m just so tired by zoom. And so the thought behind Shelter in Place very quickly became, you know, can I provide this very intimate look, not just at my life, but how we can connect in a larger, global sense? And so there was a reviewer. I love that she said, that she said, you know, it feels like having a coffee break with a close friend and, you know, somebody who will laugh and cry with you. And I think that that really captures the aesthetic of Shelter in Place and really the feel that I’m trying to go for. I want it to be as close to having that coffee with a dear friend as you can. Even though, you know, not all of my listeners know me, there is very much like an intimacy there that is something that I’ve tried to do from the beginning and has kind of evolved over time to be what it is now.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. It’s powerful that, that desire to connect and uplift and tell these stories is really a central and, it’s, it’s always been a central focus of, of my podcast even. I don’t know if I consciously realized it when I first started three years ago, but especially this year when we’re all seeing each other on zoom and, you know, and as the months go on and on and you know, I’m thinking about, you know, I haven’t actually seen like friends in person for months. I recently just, we just saw a couple that we’re friendly with and had a socially distanced get together. But before that it was months since March, we hadn’t seen anyone,  I hadn’t seen our parents for months .

So, and it’s, it’s strange to, to think about that. But I found that my podcast, even though it wasn’t specifically about 2020 or the pandemic, or, you know, a lot of the, the more timely social justice issues and racial justice issues. I feel like that naturally kind of comes in to the podcast through the stories that I tell, because I interviewed a lot of entrepreneurs on the show. I typically, you know, we’ll have a lot of people who have kind of pivoted to start their own business or have built it coming right out of school. And, you know, the pandemic has impacted every single one of them. They’ve either had to change something. Sometimes they launched like in the middle of the pandemic, so they had to kind of change their launch strategy. So just hearing those stories and it’s just so fascinating to see how people adjust to those types of challenges and hardships and you know, more recently. Some of these episodes will air, you know, in late 2020 or the first part of 2021, you know, I’ve had people coming on the show, Black men and women who are now, you know, sharing and talking about some of the challenges and the injustices that they’ve had among their own family and friends, or even with themselves, which is not something that I started out talking about on the podcast. I find them to be really powerful and just really important to tell those stories, you know, especially now, I mean that, you know, it’s always been important to help try to bring the world, and, and it’s, it’s trying to bring the world closer so that people can kind of understand other people’s positions, you know, because otherwise, how would you, how would you know, if you’re, you know, if you don’t get to talk to people and really hear about their experiences? So, I mean, that’s been a powerful part of it for me too.

Laura Joyce Davis: Yeah, I really resonate with that. I had a similar experience in season one. I mentioned that I ended up having a hundred episodes and I didn’t do this on purpose, but because of what was happening and just, you know, what was going on with me personally, trying to grapple with all of these things in our world, I ended up doing 50 interviews in those 100 episodes. I mean, it was just. Ridiculous. I learned a lot, I mean, this to say, but one of the wonderful things about doing that many interviews is that I was similarly to you. I was having all of these really incredible conversations with people that I probably would not have. You know, many of them I wouldn’t have bumped into in my regular life. And. You know, artists and clergy and, you know, experts in different fields that I only knew a little bit about. And so, and certainly, you know, plenty of, of black indigenous people of color in the mix as well. And a lot of women who were doing exciting things. And I think it’s, it’s often occurred to me that I think I have felt less lonely in the pandemic because of these wonderful conversations. That many times they’re with people that I don’t have a lot in common with. I mean, sometimes I have a lot in common with them, but not always. And yet there’s something really wonderful about being able to step into somebody’s world. And the way that I think is really special about podcasts, there is this intimacy to these kinds of conversations that you kind of jump in deep right away and, you know, sort of skip the small talk and get to get to the good stuff. And I’ve really. I’ve just learned so much from those conversations. I feel like it’s been, it it’s really shaped my experience certainly of 2020 and you know, the pandemic. And it sounds like that’s been the same for you as well.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. My podcast has consistently given me the opportunity to meet and talk with people who I probably wouldn’t have encountered in my normal life. You know, I have people, you know, whether they’re all around the world and just geographically we’re separated or just in different fields and maybe our paths wouldn’t cross otherwise. And, you know, it’s, it’s interesting, in terms of the people I’ve interviewed over the years. I occasionally, you know, I’ll have someone who I admire, whether I don’t know if I’d call them like a big celebrity, but they might  a well-known name. So I, I know certainly before the pandemic, or even like, right when it was like only going on for maybe a month, month and a half, and we all kind of thought, well, maybe this will be over by May, see where we can do with this. So, you know, I had all these thoughts in March I’m like, Oh my God, all these, like, you know, celebrities and famous people who are usually out like doing a book tour or performing somewhere, like they can’t do that now. So I’m like, Oh, maybe I could actually reach out and get someone to be on my podcast because they’re available now. And I actually did have, you know, a handful of people who were more well-known, to come on, one to promote a book launch that was going on and another was a, a standup comedian who I’m a big fan of, was on one of my shows that came out around I think March, or maybe in April, that one came out. So that was exciting for me. And I kind of had that energy, but, but I don’t know, it, it kind of sounds like it may have been the same with you when you were kind of through your a hundred episodes after a while. It’s like, I noticed that my, my energy really started to fade with every day. And then I kind of lost my, my excitement for like, finding, like, finding well-known names and trying to get them on the show. It’s like, you know, it’s not really, you know, it’s great. I interviewed some people who I really admired a lot and then others it’s like, well, you know, I kind of, I kind of want to hear from more just people who have really unique and interesting stories, as opposed to just trying to find like the big names. So I know that was kind of a learning that I had after, you know, so much time trying to think about how can I get these really big guests on my show. It’s like, well, You know these times, it’s not really about that. I just want to, you know, you have to conserve your energy so much that I only want to, you know, I only want to talk to the people who I want to talk to and who, you know, have, I can know I can have a really interesting and, and powerful conversation with and make it interesting for my listeners as well. So, I don’t know if you had that experience with finding the people that you interviewed or just sort of a concept of energy over these couple of months.

Laura Joyce Davis: Yeah, it’s a really good question. And I think because I did not, you know, in the beginning I had no idea what the podcast was going to be. I really did just think I was doing it for three weeks and it was going to be sort of, you know, kind of, I mean, I’m a creative writer, so there was a lot of craft that went into it. I mean, all of my episodes are very much written and edited and all that, but I just thought it was going to be, you know, sort of my little memoir audio diary for three weeks and then we’d be done with it. I did not have big plans for Shelter in Place in the beginning, but I think, because I was doing it daily because it did go on, I ended up in the beginning. I, I would often, and I still do this often. I would, you know, find something interesting I’d read. You know, say if I was doing an episode about, I don’t know, scarcity and, you know, resource scarcity say, I did an episode recently about that and I, I did one in season one where I found this great research on what happens to people when they are going through things like the pandemic and. You know how it changes their mindset, even if they actually do have enough, they have this mindset of scarcity. So, you know, in the beginning I was just reaching out to people to ask for permission to quote them or quote something that they had written. And then as time went on, I realized. Oh, people are actually kind of great about, you know, almost always they got back to me and said, sure, yeah, quote it. And so in season two, these two women, these fabulous researchers who I had close quoted on this research scarcity, I ended up interviewing them for episodes in season two, which was just a wonderful conversation. And I’ve now had that happen many, many times where. I’m reaching out, you know, maybe just because I found something they did and I’m interested in their work and then it turns into a conversation. And then other times I would, I would reach out to them directly for an interview. If, like I Miko Marks is this fabulous. she’s a Bay area artist. she wrote the, or she didn’t write, but she performs the song it’s on her new album called good night America.  And it is, it is the, I mean, it’s just been a song for 2020. It’s gorgeous. I found out about it because you know, through kind of a. sideway thing. I didn’t know about Miko Marks before that song. And, I think, you know, one of the places I used to go to concerts a lot had sent me an email. And so I reached out to her and ended up having this wonderful conversation with her, where she shared the song on, the episode. And, you know, so there were a lot of experiences like that, where it wasn’t necessarily somebody who was super, super famous, but somebody who, for some reason, I felt like this person has an interesting thing to say right now, they’re they’re doing or saying something really special in this moment. And their perspective is going to be something that helps all of us, you know, just see the nuance in life. Cause I think that’s where so much of the good conversation happens. Right? It’s it’s not in the big, obvious stuff. It’s in the place in kind of the gray areas and realizing. Oh, we, you know, we can kind of understand each other more than we thought we could, even if we don’t agree about everything, we still can have these really wonderful conversations with all kinds of people. And that’s, you know, that’s really, I think, at the heart of Shelter in Place. And it seems like with your show too, from the episodes that I’ve heard.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it’s, you know, for me it really is about the telling of the story. And I really try to help people share their own stories. I mean, depending on how practiced people are, you know, sometimes people are very accustomed to talking about a particular part of their story. And in other times people are coming on and sharing something for maybe the first or second time. So I really try to kind of create that environment where people can, feel comfortable and, and kind of guide them through sharing that story. And I’m always looking for things that are unique because you know,  with podcasting, especially over the past couple of years, there are a lot of people who were sort of like on the podcasting circuit. So they wind up being the same sort of people, you know, on a lot of different shows and that’s fine, you know, like have had plenty of guests like that. I always try to ask them slightly different questions. So it’s not literally the same thing.

Laura Joyce Davis: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Carolyn Kiel: And I think they appreciate that, to get to talk about something a little bit different. Yeah. But I’m always looking for. You know, the people who may be, maybe it wouldn’t have occurred to them to be on a podcast to talk about something that’s, I’m always really interested, you know, occasionally I would have a guest who would tell, you know, this amazing, incredible, like, moving story about, you know, a major, like a health challenge that they are working through or overcame or just something really big in their lives. And towards the end, like after we stop taping, they’re like, you know, I don’t really know if anyone would be interested in hearing about that. That was like the most interesting thing!

Laura Joyce Davis: This is the good stuff!

Carolyn Kiel: Exactly.

Laura Joyce Davis: Absolutely. No, I think we’re very much on the same page with that. And, and I agree it’s, it’s those moments in life that maybe aren’t the big obvious moments. But, but I think those moments that really change you as a person and challenge you and moments where maybe you have to face something really scary with, you know, and, and choose to face it with courage. I think those are often the moments that I am sort of looking for in these conversations as well. And, and like you, I mean, I think I’m, I’m not necessarily looking for the big famous people. Sometimes it ends up that the people I’m talking to are, you know, more well-known, but that’s not why I’m having conversations with them. It’s more about just, you know, do you have a story to tell that would be something that our world could really use right now and to give people hope, but also not in like a Pollyanna way.

Carolyn Kiel:  Right.

Laura Joyce Davis: You know, really grappling with how life is challenging. And I think especially in 2020 for most people, life is not easy right now. And so being real about that, but not letting it sink you, you know, I think that’s kind of. Every episode, the place that I’m trying to get to. And sometimes it was easier than others. And, but, you know, especially with doing the daily episodes and I should say, I’m not doing daily in season two, I’m doing weekly, which has been a much better, more, you know, sane rhythm to have.  But especially, in season one doing a daily, you know, it was just every day. Okay. How do I find my way to hope and not feeling sunk by whatever’s going on in our world? And often that was through conversations with other people. And then sometimes it was just, you know, through my own writing and storytelling. And I really love that there’s that enduring theme and the episodes I’ve heard of your podcast as well.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s, you know, it’s powerful and it sounds like, you know, you, you are a writer by trade. In a way this was sort of like, you know, a type of audio journal maybe or something that, you know, was shared with, with people in, in different ways. You know, people read your writing, but there’s a whole other group of people who are, who are listening and watching.

Laura Joyce Davis: Yeah. I’m glad you brought that up. Actually. It’s. It’s been something that I have thought a lot about in this process. I mean, I mentioned I’ve been, you know, I’ve been a writer for over 20 years. This is what I’ve been doing for, I’ve had a lot of jobs, but that’s really what I’ve been doing for my entire adult life. And, you know, a lot of my childhood as well. And yet most of the people in my life had never read anything I’d written, you know, even published work. They, you know, even family members, a lot of times had not ever read anything. And it’s such an interesting thing about podcasts where all of a sudden that becomes accessible to anybody who wants to listen. And I didn’t think about that when I started this, but I have really, really loved. I’ve gotten back in touch with a lot of people because of this podcast. You know, people have found me who I haven’t talked to in 10 or 15 years, and that has been something that I never could have anticipated, but it’s just been wonderful to feel like not only am I feeling more connected to people in my own life. People that already did know I was a writer and maybe, you know, this was an easy thing to check out, but then I’m also hearing from listeners that don’t know me, but it’s, it’s this very sweet thing to hear from people that. You know, you’re, you’re connecting with them in some way. And I do. I think that’s why I’m such a sucker for podcasts. You know, it doesn’t always happen. Right. But the really great ones, it’s, it’s this wonderful thing where you can go pretty deep in a topic or a conversation or a story, you know, if it’s fiction, I mean, there’s so many different ways to do it, but it does feel very intimate in a way that I think we just don’t get really in any other medium. I mean, maybe a good book, like a novel or something that you really get sucked into. But then again, it’s like, well, you know, that’s only for the listeners and the author never gets to hear about that. They never get that kind of back and forth of knowing that. If somebody is engaging with their work.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. And I, I think I may have read, you know, a while ago when I read about podcasting and the special impact of, you know, a podcast versus some other media of communication. And there’s something about because a lot of people will listen to podcasts on earbuds or headphones. So there’s that intimacy it’s having, being in someone’s ear as the podcast, like literally in their ear.

Laura Joyce Davis: Yes, that’s so true. I love that.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. And it really is. There’s something very close about that medium that somehow builds that bond. Yeah. It’s funny. I can relate to, to people sort of listening to my, my audio work and my podcast, mainly for me, it was around my, my work colleagues started to listen and, and join a bit more because, you know, it’s funny when I started the podcast, I kept it, you know, very separate from my work. I have like, you know, a typical like corporate job at a big corporation. And I just wanted this to be like, sort of my separate hobby. I didn’t really talk about it at work at all. You know, I just was kind of doing my thing. And then, you know, towards probably around the beginning of the year, I started sort of talking about a little bit more and mentioning that I had a podcast and, you know, occasionally sending someone a link or so, and then I posted a lot on LinkedIn, which is sort of the social media podcast, where I am, or social media platform, where I have some of my coworkers who are connected to me there. So, you know, over and over time, just as I started getting a positive response from. From people and coworkers, I started sharing a little bit more and more, and I found that, you know, some of the most positive and powerful impact impacts and comments and feedback I’ve gotten have been from my coworkers and colleagues at the company where I work. So it’s been, it’s been interesting cause I fought, you know, I kind of fought to keep that wall up and keep it very separate, but, and it’s still separate. Like I, you know, I really try not to cross too much, but just being, being like, just being able to share a little bit more of myself and who I am outside of work has been powerful, especially this year when everybody’s, we’re all separated from each other, you know, it’s a challenging, it’s a way to connect.

Laura Joyce Davis: Yeah. Yeah, it’s funny. I think I kind of had the opposite approach of, and again, you know, if I had known what I was going to do it, I might’ve done it differently. I don’t regret it. But, I was sort of all in from the beginning because I was like, well, you know, I’m going to do this. It’s my life. Very quickly I realized, you know, as I mentioned earlier, I had to be real about it or it wasn’t going to really float. And I joke that if you, there are a few listeners who have actually listened to all, you know, a hundred plus episodes. And I joke that if you listen to all of them, you would actually know me quite well because that accumulation of a lot of my heart and soul in life going into these episodes, and it is actually true. I mean, it’s weird to say that, but it is actually true that, I think. More than it, you know, all these years I’ve been writing fiction. And I do think, you know, my heart is very much in that too. Fiction will always be my first love, but there is something about podcasting and also, you know, very intentionally choosing to put myself and my story in that it’s, it’s very intimate.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. I mean, I’ve been listening, you know, catching up on season two and which is a different structure than your sort of daily episodes from season one, but that it’s, it’s, it’s very personal and you weave it together with such a great story. I know you’ve got sort of the allegory of, of the Odyssey and, and quite literally weave it together so well in terms of your literal Odyssey from Oakland over to the East coast. So it’s amazing storytelling too.

Laura Joyce Davis: Thank you. Well, I appreciate your listening. It means a lot.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, that’s really powerful. Wow. And, I guess the other big connections I’ve made in terms of podcasting this year have been with other podcasters. So that’s been so powerful. I know I’ve had the great fortune to meet you. I think we met on Instagram. I don’t even remember, but we definitely made a connection and started,

Laura Joyce Davis: I think it was Instagram. Yeah. I started following you on Instagram and I’m like, Oh, she’s totally, it sounds like we’ve got a lot of similar, you know, ideas and emotional territory and started listening and really have enjoyed just getting to know a little bit of your work and yeah, I completely agree. Meeting other podcasters has been such a gift in this time, and also realizing the audio world is just like such a lovely community of people.

Carolyn Kiel: It really is!

Laura Joyce Davis: They are so nice. And I’m, I’m so used to the literary world where, you know, not that people aren’t nice in the literary world, but it is very much they’re the established gatekeepers. And you know, you have to get past the gatekeeper to get to anybody. Everybody’s got an agent and an editor and. You know, I’ve been in that world long enough that I do know, I do have some wonderful friends in the literary world, but it is still very much closed off to outside. You know, if you’re new into literary world, it’s, it’s not an easy thing to break into. And podcasting is this, it just feels like this very open community of people who are very happy to help each other out. And I certainly have benefited from the generosity of a lot of different audio people out there who’ve been willing to just be like, yeah, I’ll teach you how to do this. And I’ll tell you where to look for these resources or where to buy a mic. And, I think, you know, I wouldn’t have been able to ever pull this off, had it not been for probably at least a dozen other podcasters, just being incredibly kind and generous with their time and expertise.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. And I’ve had the same experience. you know, I had the, the really good fortune to go to, my first podcasting conference, late last year. So I went to the She Podcasts conference that was in Atlanta in October. Gosh, it was over a year ago at this point! So I got to meet a lot of people in person. you know, some of whom I had been messaging beforehand and actually I met in person, two other podcasters and literally every other week including, you know, still continuing that we’ve been meeting and chatting over zoom. And, it’s been, it’s pretty extraordinary because it is, it’s literally just talking about whatever has been going on for the past, like week or two that we haven’t talked about each other. So it’s very casual and it’s just a great way to, to keep those bonds up. And then I have another podcaster or who I chat with on the phone, maybe about once a month or so just to catch up on what’s going on. So, yeah, that community has just been really supportive, just in general. So, I’m fortunate I got to go meet people in person before everything kind of shut down. I, I was going to go again this year, but of course that got postponed and none of us really, you know, went to, I didn’t wind up going anywhere really besides, you know, outside of New Jersey or so, but, maybe, maybe next year in the near future, I hope

Laura Joyce Davis: I had a very similar experience while you were at your conference. You said October, you went, yes. So I also in October, went to my first podcasting conference and it was also a women’s podcasting conference. Werk It, it’s W E R K, they have it in LA or at least it wasn’t. I don’t know if it’s an LA every year. I think it usually is, but, I went to that for the first time and I had submitted the, the other podcast that I was working on, I’d submitted to their contest. WNYC has a contest, it’s like a podcast accelerator contest. And so I ended up being a finalist for that. And because of that, got to meet all the other finalists and same thing. A couple of those finalists have continued to be friends, and we’ve been checking up on each other. We’ll have phone conversations. I mean, just last week I talked to one of them and it’s been I mean such a gift to talk to other people who are coming from totally different places in the country and have really different experiences. But I mean, these two women are, you know, they’re, they’re, I think they’re both still in their twenties. They’re, I’m 41, like they’re way younger than me, but I have learned so much from them and it’s just, it’s, it’s such an amazing thing to be able to really share that knowledge and, you know, just feel like you have friends in the community.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, podcasting is probably the one, you know, one of the most consistent things that I’ve been continuing to do. It’s, I guess in some ways it’s, it’s a bit of normalcy, through these strange times where I feel like everything is changing every day. It’s a bit of a, you know, just something to, to keep consistent and just something that, but for me, it’s, it’s, you know, it’s very time consuming for anyone who does a podcast it is, but it’s really rewarding. And, you know, even if I’m like editing audio, I really do. Yeah.

Laura Joyce Davis: I totally am with you. There’s something about showing up for the work, right? And knowing that it’s consistent. It’s going to be there. You have deadlines. I mean, it’s yeah. After so many years, again, of being in the literary world, I, you know, you send a short story out to a magazine and it is not at all unusual for six months or even longer to go by before you hear back from anyone. And so you just kind of, you know, you send things out into the ether and then forget about it. And then if you, if you get it accepted, it’s a wonderful surprise. But, but it’s, so it’s been so refreshing to have, you know, number one, not the gatekeepers of, you know, there’s nobody stopping me from putting the work out there. And number two, just having that consistency of, okay, I do this, you know, in season one, it was every day and season two it’s every week. And just knowing this is going to be the rhythm that my life is now kind of built around. And I think in some ways I, you know, I’m curious to hear if this is true for you as well. I’ve often thought, you know, with everything going on in this pandemic, I mean, in our world and also in my own life personally, I think I might’ve been really, really depressed in 2020 had I not had to show up for this work. Yeah. Consistently every day. And I think many, many times, you know, and I, you know, I don’t mind sharing, like I have struggled with depression, you know, pretty much all my adult life. And I have found there is something about having to face, you know, the hard parts of life every day, and, and really to find my way to hope, no matter what’s going on through my writing, I always knew that writing could do that for me. But I think before it was easier to be lazy about it and be like, well, I don’t feel like writing today. And now it’s like, no, there’s, this is just what I’m doing. And it doesn’t matter if I’m in a great mood or terrible mood. When I wake up, this is what I am diving into yet for yet another day. And I I’m so grateful for not just podcasting, but I think the creative process, it’s been such a wonderful reminder of how creativity can really save us in dark times. And it’s, it’s, it’s like this friend that is always there, you know, and I mean, it sounds silly to say that, but I think the work, when you choose to go there, even on the hard days, something really beautiful can come from that.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. You know, it’s so interesting because one of the other motivations for me starting this podcast, I mentioned earlier, I really wanted a creative project or something that I could kind of own and control. And I had probably about a year before that I had tried to start a blog and write consistently, but I would write like two or three posts and then like get writer’s block or just, I never established that habit or discipline. And then I would just like, feel bad that I wasn’t writing anything. So I thought, well maybe let me try podcasting because I kind of discovered it, you know, in sometime in 2017. And I’m like, you know, I, you know, I have a little bit of audio recording experience from my, my musician and singing days.

Laura Joyce Davis: I wanted to ask you about that. Yes.

Carolyn Kiel: I was trying to figure that out. And then, yeah. And then, and then for me, it’s like, cause I do interviews there’s, there’s never any shortage of people for me to interview. Like that’s never been an issue for me, fortunately, so it’s not like, oh, I don’t, you know. It’s not like when I’m writing and it’s like, I can’t think of anything. It’s like, well, there’s always somebody to interview and talk to. And it’s very, it’s enough structure for me to do it consistently.

Laura Joyce Davis: It’s true. Yeah. I feel the same way. And I, I’m glad you brought up the musician thing because I don’t know if you know this. We, we share in common, a past history as a cappella singers.

Carolyn Kiel: Oh really? Oh I didn’t know you were in a cappella!

Laura Joyce Davis: Yes. So I, yes, I, I did a cappella and co it sounds like you did it a little more professionally than me, but I was at the University of Wisconsin. I was in their women’s a cappella group. And, you know, my, my big moment of glory in that was my solo, the song that I did a solo for got, it, it won the best of college a cappella that year. It was on that compilation album that they put out every year, which was super fun. It’s out there, it’s on my website somewhere. I think my husband like buried it somewhere in the website. He made my website. But it’s there. I can send it to you.

Carolyn Kiel: Oh yeah!

Laura Joyce Davis: But, but I, I did, I wanted to ask you about that because something that has been a really fun surprise for me in this is realizing, Oh, my music background, my singing background is actually it’s, it’s actually super applicable. I mean, things like breath support and thinking about, you know, the, the tone and the tenor of your voice when you speak. And, you know, my husband teases me that I have, I have like a podcast voice. Yeah. It’s different than the rest of my life. He’s like, you should bring out the podcast voice more! But it’s, I think that was my singing background. I think it was all of those years of singing and really learning about how you can make your voice sound different. You can evoke different emotions depending on not just how high or low it is, but how much force there is, you know, kind of all of those things. And I’m curious if you have found as well, being a singer, like has, has that occurred to you at all? That you bring that into your podcasting?

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. I mean, I, I definitely see it and agree with all of the points you made about, you know, the breath support and everything that comes, that comes into that. And it’s funny, I’ve had the opportunity to interview a couple people, you know, some of them have had like radio careers or other sorts of careers in audio. And when I, I mentioned my singing background or music, they’re like, Oh yeah, like, Like we’re all musicians in that area. Like it’s very common.

Laura Joyce Davis: Well in audio editing too, right? Yeah. Audio editing, I feel like is basically like if you have a good ear for audio editing, it’s very, very similar. I think too, when you’re trying to figure out like what makes a good song and, you know, timing and all of this things rhythm, I think there’s there’s and you know, again, I never thought of this when I started all of this, but as I’ve learned to edit audio, as I’ve done this longer and longer, It’s been really fun to just realize there’s a ton of overlap there and it’s really, you know, having music a part of my life. And then once I stopped doing that, you know, I graduated from college and I didn’t really, you know, I sang in church sometimes that kind of thing, but I didn’t really have a chance to do it the way that I used to. And so it’s been fun to feel like, Oh, there’s that, you know, musician’s ear that I’m still bringing to podcasting now, which I really love.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. And I think also one thing that worked in my favor is that I’m, I’m because I’ve been a singer for so long. I, you know, I sang, I also sang a cappella in college and, and sang it after for, for several years with a group in Manhattan after college. But I am, I’m used to hearing the sound of my own voice.

Laura Joyce Davis: Right!

Carolyn Kiel: That’s significant because I hear, I hear from a lot of first-time podcasters and it tends, honestly, it tends to be women who say like, Oh, I just hate the way that my voice sounds. And unfortunately, I think there’s a lot of socialization that makes women uncomfortable with their recorded voice. But for me, I just, you know, if you’re podcasting, you will get used to your voice. And if you hear things, you know, and you have that background and enough vocal control. You can adjust small things.

Laura Joyce Davis: Exactly.

Carolyn Kiel: but you get that comfort level over time.

Laura Joyce Davis: I think that’s so true. I, this is a tangent, but I have to ask you, what was your a cappella group that you sang with in Manhattan?

Carolyn Kiel: It is called the MetropoliTones.

Laura Joyce Davis: Cool. I have to look this up.

Carolyn Kiel: We were all graduates of the seven sisters colleges. so I came from Vassar. And it’s funny, we’re not like a full-time group, but we still, we still get together. So previously we were in, we would do like holidays because that’s the big part of the time for people wanting singing groups. And obviously that isn’t happening this year in 2020, but we have been doing some remote recording. So, our music director is, is a wizard at putting together audio and her husband helps with the video and puts everything together. So we’ve done some songs through that

Laura Joyce Davis: We’re living parallel lives here. My a cappella group, Tangled Up in Blue, I mean, I, I graduated in 2001, so it’s been, you know, almost 20 years, but our percussionist. You know, it sounds like is similar to the person who’s putting yours together. And she has been orchestrating all of us putting this, you know, we’ve, we’ve been doing it all on zoom and, you know, recording it and sending her the videos and the recordings. And so it’s, it’s been really fun to, you know, these women that I haven’t seen in almost 20 years, most of them, we’re now back in each other’s lives and making a song together. It’s so fun.

Carolyn Kiel: It’s great. Yeah. And that’s a, that’s a great connection point as well as to that common theme. Oh, that’s so cool. Wow. And then of course, one new thing I’ve been doing with the podcast is putting up YouTube videos. So that, that I probably just started like the second half of the year around September, because I was always, you know, I was so kind of singularly focused on the audio. It’s like, well, you know, people are on YouTube. People, you know, people may want to see actually see me talk to other people instead of just listen and people understand YouTube. I think with podcasting people don’t really get like where to go to listen. I mean, it is confusing. It’s, it’s, it’s kind of a strange area for people who aren’t used to the world of podcasting is still kind of new for a lot of people, but people get YouTube.

Laura Joyce Davis: Yeah. No, that’s a great point. I hadn’t thought of that with YouTube, but I think you’re right.  It’s more accessible and there’s not that barrier of like, where’s the podcast app on my phone? And I think that’s, that’s a really good point, so, okay. I got to get on YouTube more.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. So I’m trying it out and yeah, I’ve gotten some, you know, you know, I’m, I’m always looking for subscribers. I think literally now every, every episode I have an intro about like, did you know that I have a YouTube channel? Please go look at it. It’s been fun. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Laura. Thanks so much for talking with me today. I think we’ve, we’ve covered a lot of ground in terms of, you know, things we’ve learned about ourselves and sort of the impact of 2020 on our podcasting. I mean, yours is, is very direct and obvious because you started it in 2020 in response to all these circumstances that we’re all going through. And, but I think, you know, mine and, and others have been shaped by this year as well. Where can people go if they want to listen to your podcast?

Laura Joyce Davis: Yeah. So it’s, of course on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can also find us at our website, which is ShelterinPlacepodcast.info. And we have a season two video trailer there, as well as audio trailers and all of the goodies of, you know, things you want to know, anything you want to know, is there.

Carolyn Kiel: Fantastic. Yeah. And I’ll put that in the show notes too. And obviously you can find my podcast on beyond6seconds.com with the number 6, and all my episodes are there. And of course, on your favorite podcast player. So, yeah, Laura it was really great to talk with you. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences this year. And, you know, it’s just been a great conversation, really, really enjoyed it.

Laura Joyce Davis: Thank you so much for having me. I’ve just loved this conversation so much, and it’s really fun to meet you. I think, you know, it’s always fun to find a kindred spirit and a fellow a cappella singer. I mean, come on! I’m such an a cappella geek.

Carolyn Kiel: Me too.  Absolutely.

Laura Joyce Davis: I know but really, thank you so much, Carolyn. This was really fun.

Carolyn Kiel: Thank you.

Carolyn Kiel: Thanks for listening to Beyond 6 Seconds. Please help us spread the word about this podcast. Share it with a friend, give us a shout-out on your social media, or write a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast player. You can find all of our episodes on our website and sign up for our free newsletter at www.beyond6seconds.com. Until next time.