Episode 124: Authentic representation of people with disabilities in the media – with Julia Ward

Julia Ward is an actor and filmmaker whose award-winning documentary, in.clu.sion, is raising awareness about the authentic representation of people with disabilities in the media. Julia is also a senior in high school, and filmed in.clu.sion during lockdown in 2020.

During this episode, Julia shares:

• How her brother Spencer inspired her to film in.clu.sion
• The challenges and benefits of filming during lockdown — including how she got interviews with actors Cole Sibus and Mat Fraser and director Peter Farrelly
• How her film discusses issues with the representation of people with disabilities in movies and television
• The reaction her film has received from the public
• Her goals and plans for the future

You can watch in.clu.sion on Amazon Prime and find out more about Julia on her official website.

Subscribe to the FREE Beyond 6 Seconds newsletter for all the latest news and updates about my podcast!

The episode transcript is below.

Carolyn Kiel:  Hello, and welcome to the latest episode of Beyond 6 Seconds. I’m your host, Carolyn Kiel. And I’m really excited to be here today with my guest Julia Ward. She is an actor and filmmaker based in New York and a senior in high school. She’s president of her high school drama club in which she is both starred in and directed productions.

She’s also appeared in independent films as well as the horror film Trick and has interned at ROAM pictures an award-winning film production company. Through her award-winning documentary film Inclusion, she’s been recognized for her work in raising awareness about the authentic representation of people with disabilities in the media.

Julia, welcome to the podcast.

Julia Ward: Hi, thank you so much for having me!

Carolyn Kiel: So happy to have you here. And I’m so excited to talk to you about your latest documentary film that you filmed over the past year, 2020. So first off, how did you get the inspiration to film inclusion?

Julia Ward: Well, I’m one of four children. I’m actually the only daughter and my youngest brother, Spencer, he he was born with two brain malformations and a handful of other disabilities.

He’s 13 years old as of last December. But he has the needs of like more like a toddler. He really requires me and my family to help take care of him and stuff. But I mean, he’s my brother, you know, like we love him.

He’s a part of the family. And growing up in rural New York, I’ve really come to realize that people don’t accept him the way that we do, they don’t see him the same way that we see him. They don’t see him as a person. They just kind of like, they see him as like this, I don’t even know like this, like other worldly being no, not like that, but you know, he’s not, he’s not a person the way that he is to our family.

And it really like what, what really ticked me off was I want to say it was last January, maybe February, February, like right before the shutdown, I was at a school event. My mom was helping out Spencer was with us because we bring him to stuff. Cause he’s part of the family and I was pushing him around.

And a friend came up to me. She knows me. She knows my family. She’s met Spencer, plenty of times interacted with him plenty of times she looked at me and she’s like, you’re using him for attention. And I was like, I know I was like, excuse me? I was just like, in that moment, I was like so upset with her, but I was just like, no, and like walked away and that just like, it bothered me so much.

And. I was like, how could someone like, think like that? How can someone, especially someone who knows us who knows Spencer, I mean, she’s given plenty of hugs to Spencer. She’s like played with Spencer sometimes when she’s been over, how can she look at him and just be like, yo, you know, he’s just an object.

You’re just using him. I’m like, what is going on? And that kind of got me, like, thinking about. You know, life in rural New York and how people interact with him. When we go to the mall, people are staring. Yeah. I mean like, and it’s not just little kids staring, you know, little kids will stare because they’re unused to it.

And they’ll, they’re curious, they see, you know, a big kid being pushed around in this strange stroller. And they’re like, what? Like, what’s that, you know, but like adults, you know, people who are old enough that they should be able to know what’s going on and should be like, yep, this is just life. And so. I was just like, thinking about how, you know, the people around us re respond to Spencer, respond to our family.

And I was just so frustrated and I thought kind of back to, I believe the show premiered not last September, but this is September before Stumptown on ABC. And how. One of the main characters on the show. He’s the younger brother of the protagonist Ansel. He has Down syndrome and he’s played by an actor with Down syndrome Cole Sibus.

And I remember watching the show for the first time and being like, Oh my gosh, like I was watching with my mom. I’m like, does he have Down syndrome? I’m like, this is like, this is awesome. Like a character on this like huge show for a huge channel has Down syndrome. And it’s not just that, that he is a character with his own, you know, like.

Like emotions wants desire, storylines, and relationships outside of that relationship with his sister, I’m like, that’s so amazing. But like as time went on, I was just like, why is that exciting? Why am I getting excited to see that on television? And so I kind of put those two events together that people aren’t seeing people with disabilities in the entertainment media.

And I think that that has sort of an effect on how they go around the real world, because they’re not used to seeing it in their everyday life. And then they’re not used to seeing it on television and in movies and in books and all that stuff. And so that’s kinda what got me going, making Inclusion. And so that’s what inspired me to really reach out to, you know, these people who are, who work for, you know, inclusion, including people on all this stuff.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, one incredible thing about Inclusion is that you did reach out to different people. You got a very well-known director, Peter Farrelly, and two, you know, amazing actors. You know, you, you got Cole Sibus, who you just mentioned and Mat Fraser you know, and I’d imagine filming, you know, in, in quarantine, cause you filmed this in 2020, and just, yeah.

You know, all the challenges with that. So how did you reach out to the actors and the director to, to be interviewed? What was that like?

Julia Ward: So like during quarantine, I’m going to be honest. During online school, I would have like one tab open with my classes and stuff, and then like, I would have another tab open kind of like looking stuff up.

I looked around, I try to find like their managers and stuff. And then like, once I found like their names, I looked for their contact information and I just emailed them. I was like, Hey. I told them, I’m like, I’m Julia. I have my youngest brother, Spencer. He has special needs. And I just explained what I wanted to do and how I think that their work is so important.

And I think that I would love to interview them for the project. And it was shocking to get responses. I, I want to say that I want to say that Peter Farrelly was the first one to get back to me. I, it might’ve been like. I interviewed also two authors that I interviewed Jason Vail and Rea Frey. And I’m putting those like on like my website and I’m actually putting them in my school newspaper this month.

I’m putting up the interview with Jason Vail, but I was like, Peter Farrelly was the first one to get back to me. And I was like playing a video game with Spencer when I got the email through. And I was like, <gasp!!!> and I was like, I shut off the Xbox and I like ran upstairs and I’m like, oh my gosh! But it was just like, It was like, just, I was like, okay, here are their managers here goes nothing.

I’m going to email them. See what happens. And actually Peter Farrelly was the one who gave me the contact information for Mat Fraser. After I interviewed him, he was like, I think that, I think that Mat, you, you should really interview Mat Fraser. I think that he’s a great person to talk to about this.

And I was like, okay. Yes.

Thank you.

Carolyn Kiel: Oh, it’s great to have that, that warm introduction now. And it’s so wonderful that they got back to you. Cause you know, clearly all, you know, all three of those you know, Peter Farrelly and Cole and Mat are very involved in, in depictions of, of disability in film and some, because they have disabilities and others, because that’s just, you know, Peter Farrelly’s saying that that’s sort of who he grew up with in the neighborhood was just used to seeing all kinds of people and wanted  them represented in the films that he created. Oh, fantastic. So, I mean, tell me a little bit about Inclusion. Like I’ve, I’ve seen it, it’s on Amazon prime. It’s, it’s an incredible film. It’s a great short documentary. And you know, it, it really highlights a lot of issues that I feel like haven’t really been well addressed in the media about the representation of people with disabilities.

So tell me what was your process for how to put that together and highlight some of those issues?

Julia Ward: Well, I re I had a list of things that I wanted to address with everyone and just how Inclusion fits with their life story and why they think that that’s important for others to see it. Because, I mean, that was my whole process going along, just that sort of, that sort of creating that acceptance that we already have, because we know it we’ve lived it, but also putting that on the screen so that others can have that and making sure that it was authentic. And I wanted to include that in the documentary. The fact that representation ideally, should be authentic. It ideally should be, you know, actors and actresses who do have those disabilities, because I find a lot that if it’s not, if they don’t have that disability, sometimes it really, it isn’t that great.

I mean, look at what happened with Sia’s new movie Music. It was very, she didn’t. She said that she auditioned autistic actors or actresses actually for the role. And it was, she, I think she said something where she just couldn’t work with them. It was something, it was something like that. I don’t, those weren’t her exact words, but what had ended up happening with the movie was people were like, this isn’t, this isn’t very accurate.

There’s some like offensive things in this movie when it comes to representing autistic people. And so that was kind of the approach I wanted to take. I want to take an approach of not only creating or having this inclusion so that other people can see it and get their own acceptance, but making sure that inclusion is accurate and that representation isn’t just like a facade, you know, it’s just, non-disabled people being like, Oh, we’re putting a disabled character in here.

Right. Making sure that it’s really it’s really heartfelt it’s really, there’s more behind it. .

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. One of the things I think you open your film with it is that a lot of the representation of people with disabilities in media has been very stereotypical. So either they’re like a very perfect character, that’s almost, you know, doesn’t really exist in the world in general and humanity, or they’re the villain, you know, traditionally we think of Richard the third, which I know Mat Fraser, having played that role talks about it quite a lot in his feelings about playing that role.

So yeah, definitely just. The whole concept of, and you talk about this with Peter Farrelly just having a person with disabilities in a role. Not because they’re disabled, just because they’re a person and they can have traits that are independent of their disability. Just, you know, just like any other human being.

And it seems so simple, but in a lot of ways, it’s, it’s groundbreaking. You don’t see that a lot in media. What was it like making this film in quarantine? Like, I’d imagine in some ways you, you still have access to interview people because you can do it over, over a zoom or over the internet, but was it, was it more challenging because you’re a filmmaker.

So you’ve been making films before this, was it challenging, kind of switching to being, making your film completely at home?

Julia Ward: I think that if it wasn’t for the pandemic, I don’t know if I would have been able to do it because I think when the pandemic hit, everyone switched to zoom. And I think that a lot of these people had had some free time on their hands.

So me reaching out, they’re like, yeah, I’m free. I can, I can interview with this kid. I think that had it not been for the pandemic I don’t know if it would have happened or if it would have played out the way it did. I don’t know if I would’ve been able to interview Peter Farrelly or Mat Fraser or  Cole Sibus, so I think that it was, it, it did pose a challenge.

It posed a challenge when it came to like, you know, trying to like record the meeting. Some people wanted to do Skype, having to figure out how to record Skype and just having to like bounce around and learn the quirks of, you know, these new programs, because honestly, no one knew how to use zoom at that point.

Pretty much everyone was still figuring it out. So it was, it was definitely, there were a couple of hurdles, but I think that I don’t want to say I’m grateful for the pandemic cause I’m not, but I think had it not been for it, I don’t know if Inclusion would be here today.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Wow. So, yeah, it’s, it’s interesting how our, our digital world and, you know, learning all of these tools.

It’s I feel like everybody’s pretty well versed in zoom now, overall, but you’re right in the beginning, I think like, actually a lot of podcasters knew about zoom because it was an affordable way to record audio, but it was interesting when everybody else kind of wound up moving over about a year ago into zoom.

Julia Ward: A lot of updates now.

Carolyn Kiel: Exactly. It’s so much has changed and so much of our world is digital and it makes sense that the filmmaking is too. Oh, so when did Inclusion get released? It was pretty recent. Is that correct?

Julia Ward: Yeah. I want to say it was mid to late October.

Carolyn Kiel:  Right. And it was Amazon prime. Was that the main release?

Julia Ward: Amazon prime.

Carolyn Kiel:  Very cool. So what kind of feedback have you received about the film so far?

Julia Ward: I’ve received from the people who’ve watched the documentary.

I’ve definitely received. It’s pretty much all been positive. I mean, I don’t actually, I’m going to say it has all been positive for the documentary, but I I, I create on social media and I’ve posted a couple videos, you know, about like representation and stuff. And the response on social media has been terrible.

I know! It’s like, it’s so surprising to me because I feel like this is a message that everyone could get behind. And it could just be, I’m very like naive in that way, but I feel like this is something that I feel like everyone should at least get behind. So I’ve seen less inclusion, people being negative, but definitely on for like other things I’ve gotten, I’ve been like called terrible things.

I’ve gotten like threats. I’m like, this is. This is a pretty, like, I don’t wanna say pretty basic concept, but like, I don’t think that saying that there should be more representation of people with disabilities should be like controversial. And I think that was so surprising. Cause I feel like with the documentary, I was just like, Oh everyone.

Yeah, everyone’s on board! It’s so lovely! And then I took it to social media and I’m like, Oh, my, like, it was shocking. I’m like, okay. I knew that some people were like, some people are not, you know, obviously they’re not used to disabled people. They may not be like super comfortable. I feel like that should have gotten, like, I don’t know, like just uploading and saying that there should be more characters with disability.

Disabilities characters with disabilities should be played by people with disabilities. The like insane response that was like, that was like a slap in the face.

Carolyn Kiel: Oh, yeah. As you said, I wouldn’t think that that would be such a controversial topic!

Julia Ward: I know!

Carolyn Kiel:  Oh, wow. Well, that’s a, yeah. I mean, clearly clearly have a long way to go with things like this, but wow, my goodness.

So, I mean, I guess, what, what kind of impact do you want to have, or would you like this film to have on the media? I mean, clearly from the response in social media, there’s a lot of room to have an impact on just society in general and their, their views of people with disabilities in media, but sort of what impact are you looking to have with your film?

Julia Ward: And obviously, I mean, I hope that in the future, we’re going to see more representation, more accurate representation. I mean, I already know. I mean, it has nothing to do with the documentary cause they cast it before. But I know like in, I want to say it’s coming up this year, but I know that Marvel’s Eternals, they’re having a deaf hero, which is so cool. I’m like now all these kids who watched like, you know, like Spiderman, Ironman, the Avengers movies, they’re going to go see Eternals and they’re going to see a deaf superhero, which is so awesome. But I, I just hope that people watch it and they see that there’s a problem and they see that there’s change that’s needed.

And they realize that maybe behaviors that they haven’t realized are, or I shouldn’t say behaviors that they’re, that they have. I hope that they realize that there is more and that their eyes are opened. And the fact that there is a problem and that even if there’s not going to be, you know, disabled characters on every show and movie, I hope that they realize that there is, there is a need.

And I hope that they realize that even if that need isn’t fulfilled, they can, they, they know that I don’t wanna say they know that disabled people exist, but you know, they, they still become more adjusted and more accepting.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, I think it, you know, the, one of the central points I think of your film is just seeing disabled people in different roles in media, gets people kind of used to seeing it on TV, just like, you know, every other change that’s happened in film and media around representation, the more you see it and it just becomes more and more typical in terms of what you see on screen.

Yeah. Absolutely. Wow. So yeah, I mean, you know, you, you are a filmmaker and you’ve, you’ve made this really important film.  Have you submitted it to like film festivals or other things?

Julia Ward: It was in the New York women in film and television their, I want to say their online shorts fest. It was featured in some newsletters. I mean, obviously the seven sisters newsletter. There’s another film festival that’s happening in March. It’s like socially relevant film festivals.

I’m like, I feel like there’s another word in there I’m forgetting. So I’m entering into film festivals. Obviously it’s being featured in newsletters that I’ve been like, hey! This is something that I did! So I’m just working, trying to enter it into things, get, you know, like the widest audience possible, just to kind of like have people see this.

And in November actually I received a New York state Senate proclamation from Senator Jen Metzger commending, commending the work on the film. And just raising awareness in general.

Carolyn Kiel: Wow. That’s awesome. Congratulations.

Julia Ward: Thank you.

Carolyn Kiel: What other kinds of films do you want to make in the future?

Julia Ward: Well, I, I plan to go into like acting, but I do want to work on films and help. I mean, you can’t just be an actress these days. I mean, really like it. No, no one’s just an actress, but I obviously like, as I go to college and when I’m done with college, I want to work on films that do  have accurate representation.

I want to help do that because I mean, if no one else is going to do it, you know, I mean, I don’t know what, what the scene’s going to look like in five years or even like next summer. But that, that’s what I plan on, like working on and doing just like, you know, I don’t wanna say normal films, but you know, stuff that has disabled characters in that accurate way without, without, obviously without being like, look, there’s disabled characters, everyone take a look at this! In a natural way. Like, like all those great examples, you know?

Carolyn Kiel: Right. That’s fantastic. Yeah. I think just sort of, you know, bringing it into, you know, making it something that’s very commonly seen.

Just part of the overall media landscape is an, a great way to approach it. Oh, fantastic. So, where can people find Inclusion? And, you know, we’ll put the links in the show notes to the link on Amazon prime, but where can people find out more about it? And are, are there other channels that people can kind of look at or connect with you or connect with the film?

Julia Ward: The, I mean, obviously the biggest one is Amazon prime. That’s where you can find the documentary. Obviously, like I said, I create online social media, like TikTok, you know, all that stuff. That stuff’s less. I mean, it is inclusion. It is about, but it’s also like other serious topics. It’s also a lot of like comedic stuff.

Cause that’s like, that’s like what I started with social media doing. But yeah, I think Amazon prime is obviously the biggest one. And I don’t know, maybe they’ll find a newsletter that has it featured in it.

Carolyn Kiel: Wonderful. Yeah. So I will put the Amazon prime link in the show notes so people can, can check it out.

And yeah, it’s, it’s a really great powerful film. And yeah, I thank you for, for making that, that film and doing the work and sharing it with the world. And I’m certainly hoping that society gets a lot more open soon, you know, we’re having so much open dialogue now about representation and equality and justice, just, you know, certainly on a, a racial and economic level.

And I’m hoping that that extends to all all forms of diversity and inclusion and equity. And I think this is an important part of the conversation as well. Very good. So, you know, as we close out, is there anything else that you’d like our listeners to know or anything else they can help or support you with?

Julia Ward:  I mean, just take away, you know, like what what’s important here, you know. Not allowing what you haven’t been introduced to, you haven’t been exposed to, to create, you know, these, this unfamiliarity, if that’s a word. Don’t allow that to cloud your mind and create judgment because I mean, Spencer’s a person, my family, we’re all people and you may not be familiar with someone with, you know, agenesis of the corpus callosum or Dandy-Walker syndrome. But that doesn’t mean that they don’t exist. That doesn’t mean that they don’t have feelings. That doesn’t mean anything.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, definitely important message to you know, just, just expand your experiences and realize our, our common shared humanity. Yeah.

Julia Ward: Absolutely.

Carolyn Kiel: Absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Julia, for being on my podcast today.

Julia Ward: Thank you so much for having me. It was such a pleasure.

Carolyn Kiel: Thanks for listening to Beyond 6 Seconds. Please help us spread the word about this podcast. Share it with a friend. Give us a shoutout on your social media or write a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast player. You can find all of our episodes on our website and sign up for our free newsletter at www.beyond6seconds.com. Until next time.