Episode 158: Fabulously Tourette – with Peter Zhao

The episode transcript is below.

Carolyn Kiel: Welcome to Beyond 6 Seconds, the podcast that goes beyond the six second first impression to share the extraordinary stories of neurodivergent people. I’m your host, Carolyn Kiel.

TW/CW: Mentions of racism, suicidal thoughts and auditory hallucinations

Carolyn Kiel: Hello and thanks for joining me today! It is currently Tourette Syndrome Awareness Month, which runs from May 15 to June 15, and today I’ve got a great episode about Tourette syndrome with my guest, Peter Zhao.

Peter has Tourette Syndrome, ADHD and OCD – and the day before we recorded this episode together, he was also diagnosed with bipolar disorder. We talk about what it was like for him growing up in Nanjing China and then in Bayside Queens, New York, with these conditions, as well as the impact of his Chinese culture and family expectations on his lifelong neurodiversity and mental health journey. As part of that journey, Peter describes hearing voices and having suicidal thoughts. He talks about what caused them and how finding effective treatments for his mental health have helped quiet them. I really appreciate his candor as he describes what he struggled with, and what has helped him.

He also brings this candor to his advocacy for Tourette Syndrome awareness, which started when he fought back against his bullies in the 7th grade – you definitely want to stay tuned to hear the story behind that. He continues to advocate for Tourette Syndrome awareness and Mental Health every day, as a professional working in the healthcare industry and on his social media.

If you find stories like this valuable, then please, share this podcast with a friend! If you’re listening to this episode on your phone, why not take a quick screenshot, post it to your social media and tag me at beyond6seconds. By sharing this podcast, you can help me amplify neurodivergent stories — and I appreciate that so much! Oh, and don’t forget to follow my podcast in your favorite podcast app so that you get all my latest episodes.

And now, here’s my conversation with Peter.

On today’s episode, I’m speaking with Peter Zhao from Long Island, New York. He grew up in Nanjing, China, and then in Bayside, Queens, New York. He works in healthcare and is a husband and father of two sons, Peter has Tourette’s Syndrome, ADHD and OCD. He started to advocate for Tourette’s after he fought back against bullies in the seventh grade and continues to advocate for Tourette’s Syndrome awareness and mental health every day. Peter, welcome to the podcast.

Peter Zhao: Thank you so much. It’s definitely my pleasure to be on your show.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. I’m so excited to have you here and learn more about your story. So when did you get your Tourette’s diagnosis and how did that come about?

Peter Zhao: My first tic came about when I was eight years old, I was still in China at the time. I had an episode appear on another podcast, which is Tourette podcast. And the episode name was called Sticking out my Tongue Like a Snake. So that was my first tic when I was eight years old. I used to stick out my tongue like a snake. As a matter of fact, just by talking about it, this old tic comes back, but I also know how to put away, you know. But by the time I come to the US at 11 years old I lived in Elmhurst Queens. And then when the, after I moved to Bayside, I found out Bayside is the headquarters for Tourette’s Syndrome America. It’s there I found out by North Shore University Hospital, which is now Northwell, and I got my diagnosis for Tourette’s Syndrome, ADHD and OCD when I was 12 years old.

Carolyn Kiel: So was it a surprise to you or your family when you actually got your diagnosis and how did everyone react to it?

Peter Zhao: We had no idea what’s Tourette’s Syndrome. We also had no idea what’s ADHD. We had no idea what’s OCD. When I was eight years old in China, my father took me to a pediatrician. And he basically said, this is called xiaoerduodongzheng. Duodongzheng meaning moving too much, over activity, and xiaoer meaning pediatric. So pretty much ADD, not, not so much ADHD, but then the doctor also say most likely this is just a bad habit.

So this is also one of the reason why I advocate as a Chinese American, because overall, you know, mental health it’s it’s, it’s not, it’s not looked at it as so seriously in Asia. That’s why we had no idea correct this, the term, the terminology Tourette’s syndrome even existed. So it was brand new to us.

Carolyn Kiel: Oh, wow. Because you grew up first starting in China and then moved to, to Queens so you had your childhood in two different places, yeah I was wondering how things were reviewed. So you got diagnosed when you were actually in the United States when you got your diagnosis.

Peter Zhao: You know, it got a lot more severe when I got to the US.

Carolyn Kiel: So what, like, what was it like growing up with Tourette’s syndrome? I guess, you know, throughout your entire childhood?

Peter Zhao: Well it wasn’t much of a bother back in China. People really don’t really notice it and the frequency of me sticking out my tongue, it’s not too, it’s not, you know, it’s not so often. So people don’t really notice it .But after I came to the States even 10 or 11, not so much increased despite I’m in a new environment. I would learn everything new and assimilate a new culture, but I, after I moved to Bayside. My father came with me. My mom came first in 1988 and then my father and I came later in 1991. But my folks, they have been fighting all their lives. So, so after they came to the States, they still, they still continue to fight. So by the time I was 12, I moved to Bayside. My father has also went back to China and also they divorced around the time I was 12. So a lot of things happened at that time. It may have costs the increase of all my, all my tics.

So by the time I was 12, I was in Bayside. You know, I’m brand new to this country. I’m, I’m learning to speak English, learning to adapt to the culture. Meanwhile, I have all these tics on my face, tics in my body. At the time I was really severe. I was shaking like, like seizure. I have coprolalia, you know, I repeated, I repeated, you know, F U C K .I, I doodled obscene drawings.

So, so I was, people just think that I’m this freaky Chinese kid just came to America. So, so, you know, you know, before, before anyone, before I learned what’s racism, right? Before anyone who try to call me a ch*nk, I learned something entirely different. You know, it was other Chinese from other places like Chinese from Taiwan, Chinese from Hong Kong. They first call me Communist pig, they first call me a mainland loser telling me to go back to China. Right, because, because of because of the past colonialism happening in Asia, in China, how everyone’s split by politics. So even though we all look alike, but there’s this generational trauma and grudge from the past.

So, so, so I got subjected to, to, to that kind of verbal abuse in school, on top of the Tourette’s. So I was, I was a freak of the school and, and everybody made fun of me. And, and unfortunately teachers, they don’t, they don’t step into to, to do anything. So every time I show up in school, I have a stomach cramp. It’s all from nervous reaction. Of course my tics, just get a lot more severe.

Carolyn Kiel: Wow. Yeah, that sounds incredibly difficult to just be in a completely new place, learning a new language and with all these challenges, all the stresses at home, and then all the different manifestations of tics and then having to work with not just with the students, but also teachers not really stepping in or, or it sounds like really being supported. Did you get any kind of support for Tourette’s, ADHD, OCD growing up, like either at home or in school or anything like that?

Peter Zhao: Well, like, like, like a lot of folks from my mom’s generation, they grew up through a very turbulent time, you know? In the last century, you know, China went from thousands of years of feudal to a Republic of China, then invasion, then changing regime. And my mom grew up through the era that including the Cultural Revolution. So she’s seen a lot of crazy stuff. She, she got a lot of trauma, so she’s hardened because there’s very little support in China when come to mental health. So she used her sheer willpower. But my mom has like bipolar symptoms and I never seen her tic, but she’s, she’s got, she’s got issues which she don’t want to deal with it. She doesn’t really believe in mental health and, and that’s why, and that’s what I, for me, I spy support from my mom. Yes. She was very, very supportive, but she was more supportive in what she wants. Right? And she she wasn’t trying to be in my shoes and trying to figure out how I’m really thinking. To her, the most important thing is to find support so they can quickly get rid of my tics because the physical tics looks very ugly and in Chinese everything’s about the face. So she said she feels tics lose, lose face. It might also jeopardize my own future, like school or career. She, she thinks people will think I’m crazy. But that’s the way she support because she want to quickly get me back on track the way she wanted me to, not having any tics.

But other than her, I’m very glad to to get diagnosed for Dr. Shapiro. And at the time he was a very famous doctor, pioneer in Tourette’s Syndrome medicine and pioneer using a generation one anti-psychotic to treat tics. So I’m also very glad I lived in Bayside, which is a home to Tourette’s Syndrome Association, where I learned so much about this new condition, which I have never heard before. In the early nineties, as far as supporting goals, that’s all I have. My father in China, I talked to him about Tourette’s, you know, even just two days ago, I spoke to him about Tourette’s syndrome. He still tells me that he still doesn’t understand. He still doesn’t believe this, even though I tell him Tourette’s Syndrome is a covered condition by the American Disability Act, but he still doesn’t, doesn’t want to or doesn’t try to understand what this is. So that’s pretty much for my support team in the early nineties, when I was just diagnosed.

Carolyn Kiel: And I think I may have listened to another podcast interview that you did, or it may have been one of the blogs that you wrote about your mom is that, you know, as you said here, she was trying to help kind of reduce the tics because that was the most visible condition. And as you described, you know, showing it on the face and the importance of that in in, in Chinese culture. But I think you had mentioned that she maybe thought the other symptoms that you were having of Tourette’s could be overcome sort of by, I don’t know, willpower or power of mind or something like that. So besides, you know, the treatment for the tics, were you doing other treatments or just trying to control other symptoms?

Peter Zhao: Yeah, as a matter of fact, yesterday was life-changing for me. I haven’t shared it on LinkedIn yet but I did share on my Facebook and also Twitter. Yesterday I finally got my bipolar symptoms assessed. So I’m formally diagnosed for bipolar one. I’m also, you know, bipolar three type, one, two, and then the third? So the third, the third type bipolar is basically when you add the hypomanic stage or depression stage, you exhibit both symptoms. So, so at the high I exhibit both high and low at the low, I exhibit both high and low as well. So I’ve got this type of a diagnosis, which I have long been suspecting the anti-psychotic psychotic I took at 12 years old gave me some permanent side effects, which was a manic depression. So yesterday I saw two therapists. One is going to continue and give me psychotherapy treatments. And the other one is a, it’s a clinician who’s in charge of medicine management. Although I feel my bipolar symptoms came from anti-psychotic medicine, but I was, I was validated the fact that I was using a generational one anti-psychotic Orap, which, which is notorious, I should say was, it’s an old medicine, which was notorious for the amount of side effects, also including inducing patients with more tics, and then on top, bipolar.

So even though I stopped taking the medicine, this condition stay with me. So the doctor was amazed. She, she, she, she couldn’t believe that I actually survived for nearly 25 through 30 years of misdiagnosed bipolar, or I don’t get diagnosed at all or though e ven though I have such a, such a severe condition, you know, happening, I was more focused on tics. I was more focused on Tourette’s. I’m also aware of mental health. But, but but I, I, I have mitigated this, the severeness of bipolar, but now I see it.

You know, one of the reasons why I mitigated my bipolar because I always felt mood swing was something we all have, and we all can work it out, which was something my mom believed. That’s why when I was 12 years old, two to three months after taking the medicine, I’m beginning to feel very weird because I will show up in school feeling good, feeling happy. And then whenever we stopped playing some kind of school activity, some kind of sports when I need to make a decision, because I have to decide, my mood was beginning to collapse and that also pulls down my, my self-esteem, pulls down my confidence. So then I don’t want to go play the sports, yet consciously. I still want to play it. So my conscience will basically tell me, go go, go do it to do it. But I don’t want to go. So every day I go through this struggle.

Eventually my conscience became louder and it actually summoned like the voice of my mother telling me. Telling me, “you know what? You’re such a loser. You’re so stupid. Why don’t you go try? You don’t try.” And that’s why eventually I was afraid to tell my mom this is going on, because I know, I know the way she, she looked at mental health. Also, I know how much this medicine means to her. Even though the medicine control a lot of my tics, but a year after taking this, it wasn’t controlling as much as the beginning. By then, you know, almost like heroin users chasing a dragon. My mother was, was chasing the dragon, hoping my pills will have the same effect as the first time taking it. So, so, so, so she insisted on me to continue with this medicine because she cared a lot about tics. So that’s why I never told her I was going through this.

But, you know, as I grow 15, 16, and I’m getting older, more mature. I fight with her more frequent. So then now by then I had the guts to tell her that this medicine hasn’t been working, the medicine has given me more tics. Also on top, I’m hearing voices, mom, you know? Also I said sometimes I’ll get very sad. I don’t understand why. So she basically said, she thinks this is the stuff I made up just to piss her off and she refused to believe it. And you know, even doctors, we went to see the doctors and I saw a pediatric neurologist, pediatric psychiatrist, and none of them believed this medicine that I was taking can produce psychotic effects, you know, so, so, so that was what happened.

And also then that’s why I, I, I staggered through this. I, I, I had an own coping mechanism and for so long, even though, even though I stopped the medication at age 20, but the bipolar symptoms stayed with me until now. I’m almost 42 this year. And, and it got so severe. I thought, you know what? I need to seek treatment and get some help.

Carolyn Kiel: Wow. Well, yeah, I think it’s got to be so challenging or frustrating to be misdiagnosed or to just have that bipolar disorder diagnosis not be official until like so much later in your life and just, you know, all the, the interactions of the, the things that we take to treat sometimes have have those side effects and gosh, that’s got to be such a frustrating condition. But, but I’m glad that you were able to get your assessment and it sounds like finally, like you might have some, some answers as far as things that have been going on through your life. Wow.

Peter Zhao: Yeah, they introduced me to a new medication. It’s a generation three anti-psychotic. Of course, and, you know, even my wife knows that I had such horrible experience with medication in the past. And so everyone thought I will be resisting in trying to take another medicine. Believe it, believe it, believe it or not. You know, even though I popped my first pill last night before going to sleep. But but I, I, I had a horrible sleep. One of the symptoms that come with bipolar, doctors often ask if, is if I have bad sleep patterns. I tell them, my sleep usually pretty good. But last night after took a pill, I woke up many times with nightmares. It’s not because of the pill’s interaction. It’s because of my bad experience with taking medicine. So, so, you know, before I pop it into my mouth and I’m just thinking, oh man, Oh, well, you know, you know, when, you know, in my younger days, you know, going clubbing with cosmetic drugs, I might just, I might just pop it without even thinking, but this stuff says anti-psychotic and I had such a bad experience as a kid.

So this I’m just thinking twice, you know blue pill, red pill, blue pill, red pill. I’m happy that I’m, that I’m taking this approach because I can’t call myself anti-medication since I only took one medication for over 8 years. So, but I haven’t tried anything else, you know, so I will like to have an open mindset and give it a shot.

Carolyn Kiel: Well, that’s great that you still have that open mindset. The pharmaceuticals and the drugs have just changed so much over, you know I’m in my mid forties and just, it’s amazing how much things have evolved and changed with, with, with drugs. So it’s great that you’re open to trying new things and I’m hoping for all the best with you that the medication is really helpful.

So since you said you took the first medication, the anti-psychotic Orap for like about eight years. So you stopped around when you were 20. How did you try to kind of treat or mitigate or manage through your, your symptoms in that time in between without, without drugs?

Peter Zhao: I I stopped medication without without proper instruction from the doctor since my mother refused me to stop medication. So by the time I was 19, 19, 20, I moved, I moved out. I moved in with my girlfriend at the time and she was very supportive. And I got some off clinic suggestions for my psychology professor. So he even said, I’m not a clinician. I shouldn’t tell you anything, but in my opinion, you should really wax and wane and just stop this now. But doctor in the past have had only been telling me about wax and wane. Nobody checked my blood work. Because the anti-psychotic also produced heart murmurs. So I had a skipped beat for many years. Even, even after I stopped medication, my EKG continued to show the heart murmur for 7 to 8 years until it’s finally gone. And also the medicine can produce hypertension, whole bunch of different physical effects, physical side effects, which I wasn’t aware of. So. That’s why the doctor always tell me to wax and wane, but no one say I should stop the medication and start new.

So I stopped, I stopped the medication on my own. Yesterday my doctor told me that’s very dangerous. She said, don’t do this again in the future. But I stopped it. I had horrible withdrawal symptom. I couldn’t sleep for days, but you know what, I woke up feeling really refreshed. And one of the first thing I did while waking up is try to, it was trying to summon those voices to come back. And the voice disappeared completely.

So for me at the time, I didn’t quite grasp what is hypomania and what is depression. I only knew about those voices. So, so for me, I’d rather have tics than the voices. So the voices are gone and I’m just, just, I’m so happy. And from, from then until now I haven’t taken, I haven’t taken any medication. So I just basically just try to, try to, try to watch my diet, you know, exercise regularly. I definitely try to, try to keep an open mindset, you know. Try to, try to think positive, even though, even though later on, I realized simply having positivity and having gratitude, you know, it’s not enough to, to help, especially, you know, when I’m deep in depression and those cliche way of helping actually produce more guilt for myself. And, and I, I go further deep. But that’s pretty much what I have been doing because I always knew by telling other people about what Tourette’s is, so they don’t assume who I’m not. So while I like helping other people, I feel like it’s a way to heal myself. And so, so that’s helping other people and trying to be positive and exercise. So that was my main coping mechanism.

And although, you know, I didn’t really ever talk to so many more people on social media, the way I’m doing it right now until about four or five years ago. Because there was a long period of time, even though I like to advocate about Tourette’s, I don’t want to be with, in a room with other people with Tourette’s because at the time I haven’t got over the triggering stage. Whenever I got triggered and all the bad memories come back. So as I wasn’t comfortable yet. I hadn’t fully accepted. But then after, maybe in my mid thirties, that’s when I fully accepted and I’ll actually feel, feel very interested. It’s very nostalgic when someone triggers a tic from 10, 15 years ago. And also it’s very fascinating that the tics come, come as a trigger, but I also immediately bring back, you know, my antidote, you know, the way to stop a tic. It all come back from the, from deep inside the sub subconsciousness. So it’s a, it’s very fascinating.

Carolyn Kiel: That is interesting, because I’ve heard that sometimes tics will, will come and go, specific tics will kind of come and stay and then go.

Peter Zhao: Yeah, they wax and wane, they wax and wane, they play hide and seek inside your subconsciousness. I think they hide in places where trauma hides, and when trauma comes out, your old tics can also come out also.

Yeah, it’s, it’s very, very fascinating. I’m still learning more about myself. And yesterday, and that’s the diagnosis for bipolar, it was a revelation that, that made my eyes even bigger. I get to see so much of those misunderstanding, frustrating misunderstandings I endured, now I have an answer for. So, so that’s why I speak up because I encourage other people to speak out and find out more about yourself.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. That’s intriguing that the different tics sort of, to paraphrase, hide in the same place that trauma does and that they’re tied together. Yeah. I don’t know. The human brain is just really intriguing the way that it works!

Peter Zhao: It is. In many ways the medication we take, it’s not the medication that’s helping us, but the medication is the key to open up the brain, so your body will release those chemicals. And at the same time, it’s also those chemicals your body releases throw your balance off and give you a, you give you those conditions in the first place. So your body and your mind. Very, very, very fascinating.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. And you mentioned exercise as a way that you help manage it. What kind of exercise works for you?

Peter Zhao: Well well online these days, especially throughout the pandemic, I have been promoting hashtag 25 pushups for Tourette’s. So a pushup is one of my favorite form of exercise. I like to do to two different variation, pushups. So within one set, I do five or six different variation just to make my pushups more fun, also more effective. I like to do pull-ups. I’m not so much of a runner, but I like to jog, I walk. I, I bike. Golf is a, is a great sport for me, even though I haven’t been playing for like the last two, three years, you know, with kids golf needs time, but, but my younger days, golf was such a struggle because my tic was more severe.

But believe it or not, you know, once you find your passion. I was you know LinkedIn, my friend Nathan was sharing about, you know, what type of work is suitable for ADHD. It’s very true. You gotta, you gotta find a job that fits your passion. Same thing for sports, you need to find a sport that fits your passion. Because for people like us, once we’re passionate, we’re focused. Once we will be focused, we forget our tics, it all goes away.

So now, now for the mindfulness exercise, I practice Qigong, you know, Chinese deep breathing exercise. because breathing overall helps with tics. And there are studies talking about when the brain lacks oxygen, you can produce more ticks. So that’s why they have this orthodontic device for TMJ where you bite on a device. It’s supposedly you open up, open up the the jaws on the side, so more air can travel into your brain. And also in the past, when I used to tic a lot, just, just simply by pulling my shoulder back, expand expanded long, deep breath. My tic will stop, you know? So that’s why, even though it’s not a cure, but it’s a great way to suppress tics and, and, and have a prolonged time without tics through Qigong exercise.

Carolyn Kiel: Wow. Yeah, that’s fascinating. Just that, you know, anything that, one, is something that you’re passionate about that you can focus on, totally makes sense that it can help kind of change the way that your, your mind works with your body. And then two, anything that brings awareness to your body, even if it’s just opening up your breathing and getting that oxygen and yeah, totally see that.

Yeah. So yeah, you said, started to talk about the advocacy that you’re, that you do for Tourette’s and mental health in general. And in your bio, we said it started in seventh grade when you started to fight back against some of the bullies. So yeah, would love to learn more about how you got started with advocacy.

Peter Zhao: Well, after the fight, in the principal’s office, obviously the principal want us to write a statement about what happened. And I wrote this two page long statement, you know. Mind you, I was just in the United States for less than two years. I’m still learning to speak English. I’m looking at the other kid who grew up here. He barely wrote a paragraph and I pushed out two pages. I said, I was really, I was really, really happy, really proud. And through the, through the writing I did about Tourette’s I felt very empowered.

Despite my mom was old school in her ways that didn’t help me with Tourette’s, but she was also a warrior woman. She was a single mom, a power executive. She was in the aeronautics industry and she always challenged herself against all the men in the industry. And so she always thought she’s better than the men out there. So she’s that type of a, a woman. And so, so, so she, she definitely empowered me to stand up. So she wasn’t the stereotypical Asian minority, I mean, a model minority, you know, just keep it to yourself and don’t do anything about it. Oh no she believed in fighting back when, when, when the adults in the room are not helping you, you gotta fight back.

The ideation of advocacy started in, in, in seventh grade. And I started talking about it to other students, but it was when the first semester of eighth grade started. That’s when I really took myself to each class, each new class. At the time we have homeroom you know, where all the kids gather before the class starts. So that’s where I do my introduction. I talk about who I am, where I’m from. And most importantly, what is Tourette’s Syndrome and what’s my understanding and what I hope you can learn from it. So I took this, I took this, this, this type of advocacy through throughout junior high school and high school. And by the time, you know, by the time I was in senior year, one of my former bullies came up to me. And at the time we already friends actually, and he also said to me, Hey, we’re about to graduate. And I just wanted to let you know, I’m sorry for treating you like that in the past, but I have a lot of respect for for what you do.

And I, I felt really, really good when I heard that. Hence, I took the same advocacy to college and also to work. So every, every, every job interview, when I know I’m acing it, I’m about to get the job. I always let the person interviewing me, like, let, let them know I have Tourette’s Syndrome. And, and a lot of times they are shocked. They couldn’t believe it, you know, because they think I will be ticcing. I’ll be doing all that stuff. You know, obviously they don’t understand what’s Tourette’s, but they’re just very shocked at I’m so upfront about it. And even after the interview stage, I’m at work, I will also, number one, inform HR, you know, because not only is it good to educate them, but it’s also good to let them know, Hey, this is a disability act protected, protected condition. You know, so you should know about it. Right? And then I’ll also stage a few minutes of my time during team meetings and do another formal introduction of what’s Tourette’s and who I am, you know. So that’s, that’s the advocacy for the professional world.

And extracurricular wise I’m on social media. I’m on all platforms. I belong to a lot of Tourette Syndrome support groups on Facebook. I do Text and also video visual amounts. I’m also on TikTok. Other Tourette Syndrome, like Tourette Podcast, the host, he, he said he, he really enjoyed the way I advocate because he said I’m not all serious about the academics of Tourette, but I like to advocate to show people how I incorporate Tourette’s Syndrome and my mental health into my everyday life.

And just last year I started writing and publishing. So I have already published several Asian journals specifically talking about my Asian American experience growing up in America, having Tourette’s and mental health.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Well, that’s great. I think it’s, it’s fantastic that you are, you’re comfortable being very open at work about having Tourette’s and also just as a great role model for other people in the workplace. Clearly like, you know, you’re not the only person with Tourette’s in the working world, so it’s just a great example for people to see people who are open about it and talking about it and educating other people about it. So, yeah, that is fantastic.

Peter Zhao: Thank you.

Carolyn Kiel: Talking about career, you work in healthcare, so how did you decide what kind of career you wanted to have and decide what industry to go into?

Peter Zhao: You know, that’s a, that’s a really interesting thing because when I grew up in China, my mother was the only business person in my whole family, you know, because of the, because of how China was in the last hundred years with all the war, how things are torn apart, things had to get back together. So, so people were kind of own placements. So my mother’s choice was to get into business.

My father is in the media industry. He was a TV show director, back in China at the time. But because there was so busy, plus they fight all the time, so oftentimes they, they neglect me. So I’m, I’m always being, they dumped me to the grandparents. So I, as I grew up with my grandparents, you know. My grandparents were both professors. They, they speak multiple languages. They translate books. So, so I grew up in this university professor environment. So I wanted to become a biologist. Even though I don’t like to read a lot of fiction, a lot of non academic books, but until now I still like to read textbooks. So that’s a habit I developed since I was a kid.

So, but after coming to America, things changed. Especially with, with Tourette’s syndrome, how it hit my self-esteem and confidence. So things got really, really scrambled although my, my mom pushed me to, to get a working paper at age 14, to start experience working and to, to get an understanding of how money works.

So, you know, now I look at my social security history. I’ve been paying income tax since 14. I’m almost 42 and I should, I should have retired by now. Right? So, but, but because my head was so scrambled, you know, I once wanted to become a biologist. I once wanted to teach. I had a scholarship at SUNY Purchase for Environmental Science. But my mother wanted me to, to go to Baruch and learn business and also stay closer to her. So I listened even though that’s not what I want. So I forced myself to do what she want. Now I realize all this forcing and swallowing a lot of things that just to make, just pleasing people, making other people happy. It doesn’t do anything good to my mental health because these unhappy memories pushed down inside becomes the trauma that haunts me in the future.

So I, I really wish I went with my own way. I didn’t. So I went with her way to do business. I’m bad in math. I’m not good at numbers. I also understand a lot of people with ADHD, they’re not really good with numbers. So I’m not exactly bad with math. You see, just by the time I hit calculus, calculus is my ceiling. I can’t go up beyond calculus. So, so business school demand, demand math.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah.

Peter Zhao: So I spent three and a half years in Baruch unable to go further because I couldn’t pass pre-calc or even pre-calc, I couldn’t pass it, I took 3, 4 tries.

So at the time I was also going through. Even though I was still on medications, I was about to be off. I was working. I was having Tourette’s. I was having undiagnosed bipolar symptoms. I was depressed at the time. The medicine, the voices was beginning to tell me to kill myself. By the time the voice was so severe. It was loud. It was three or four different voices telling me to kill myself. So, so unfortunately I had to drop out of college at the time. Since I always been working, so I found myself a job continue to work, but you know, I think with all this going on, my head become so cloudy and I lost focus. So I don’t really know what, what fits me and what’s a good job. All I know was subconsciously I knew I need something that, that, that, that can bring out my passion because I know once I have the passion. I’m enthusiastic.

So I always thought I could do any job because, because I have the passion. Now I understand is that at the hypomanic stage, I have certain narcissistic traits during the hypomania stage that that gave me the delusion, make me think that I can have anything because I’m a passionate, enthusiastic person. That caused me to, to, to look less about what I really want, and rather I just threw myself into any industry.

So, so I did, I did freight forwarding. I move containers, ocean freight, air freight for, for 10 years. I worked through several companies, including FedEx. I did sales. I traveled to Asia. So it was a really good experience. But when the recession hit, my type of job become very difficult to survive, but that’s also when, when Obama started Obamacare with Medicaid expansion, that opened up new insurance opportunity.

So, so at one of the insurance carrier in New York expanded their Medicaid program and they, then they created additional lanes. So I was introduced to community outreach for quality management. Even though I had no, no experience in this field, but I learned it’s a people’s job. It’s also, it’s a service job and I’m really good at servicing. Astrological wise, but my rising sign is a Virgo. So I learned Virgo people are very good at servicing and, and, and I love, I love servicing.

So, so, so that’s how, that’s how I went through a job interview. When I went to a job interview, I was, I was, I was going to come to do a sales call at time, but oh, suit up, briefcase. So I showed up and when I look everyone out, I thought, Hmm. I think, I think I might, I might, I might get this position, so. After I spoke to the manager, I realized, Hey, this is definitely a definitely a people’s job. Of course, I need to learn new skill sets, but most, mostly it’s about me connecting with the community and get the message across similar to, to Tourette syndrome advocacy.

So that’s why I stayed. And it’s, it’s been almost 10 years since I’ve been working there and you know, it’s a corporate job. You know, cooperation is not a, it’s not a human entity. So, so from time to time, you know, with my, my local service mentality, I still run into conflicts with the number mentality, but I feel, I, I feel the job I do is able to satisfy me to create the passion I need. What really makes my day perfect is when I encounter the most nasty member with the most problematic issue, because I like to use my patience and work with this member and eventually give the member a solution. Sometime they don’t require a real solution. Sometimes they’re just so pissed off simply by the way of how other people didn’t have the right service mindset and they just pass them around and they don’t want to take ownership. So, so a lot of time I want to show them how I give you the ownership that you want from me.

And to show you, you know, I’m capable yet I’m also humble. Understand what’s a true capability, simply being truthful and honest to you. And that’s already great for the consumers to hear. Because I’m also a consumer. A lot of time, I just want to get an honest answer. I’m not demanding for the sky. So sometimes over all week long, it is one, this one call, one person, it make me so, so, so satisfied for next week I have. But, but if you ask me right now what I want to do, I’m still not quite sure, but, but, but I, like I said, I just want to service people, help people, and, and to find something that where I can, that fits my passion.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, that’s fantastic. And it just shows the importance of finding work that fits with your passion and fits with your skillset. So yours being, you know working with people, service, problem solving, listening, all of that, you know, it sounds like it ties in really well with what you’re doing now and will help guide you in the future. So that’s really great.

Peter Zhao: My wife’s still, she still feels that I should try real estate, because she feels with my personality, especially how I’m juggling Tourette’s and bipolar, she feels being able to have full control on my own, being independent, not having to answering you know, immediate bosses, wi ll likely decrease the chance of having me relapse into depression.

But, but a lot of people said I have a lot of potential to, to truly be an entrepreneur and do something on my own. But the traumas, especially the undiagnosed bipolar and the depression and the mood swings I go through has been inhibiting me from moving forward and pursuing what I really want, because often I guilt trip myself and downgrade my own potentials and unable to pursue further. This is also another reason why I want to seek treatment so I can finally feel the way I want to feel without feeling like I’m masked by a mental health condition.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, no, that’s fantastic. Yeah. Peter, thank you so much for talking about your experience and your advocacy on my show. How can people get in touch with you if they want to learn more about your advocacy and the kind of work that you do with that?

Peter Zhao: My current alias where you can search me on all platforms, Facebook, TikTok, Twitter, instagram, it’s all under the same account: FabulouslyTourette. I want to be Tourette and fabulous at the same time. So that’s where you can find me. Not to mention I’m also on medium. So it just make it easy to find me. That’s why I kept my alias same through all platforms.

Carolyn Kiel: Makes sense. And I’ll put links to your social media in the show notes so that people can click on it from there when they’re listening to the episode.

Is there anything else you’d like our listeners to know or anything that they can help or support you with?

Peter Zhao: Yeah. You know, a lot of times when I tell people my story some people will tell me, oh, Peter, I’m so sorry for what you’re going through. I always tell back to that person and I say, Hey, thank you for your support, but I don’t think I’m the person you should feel sorry for, because there are more people out there who, who know something’s happening, but who don’t want, who can’t say it. You know? There are people that live in other countries afraid to, to, to speak up about their mental health problems, fearing they will get blacklisted by jobs and government. You know, there are, you know, living, living in America, they, they, they, they don’t want to speak up about this because they don’t want to get teased by family member for being weak.

So there are a lot more people are there. And also there are people out there who have the condition, yet they don’t understand, they they’re speaking, they’re speaking with their mental health condition. So they are in, they are in their own denial. And they don’t see the danger that’s up ahead. So I feel those people deserve the big sorry, you know, you’re trying to give it to me, but, but I’m grateful the fact that I’m lucky enough to be able to recognize to having the insight and awareness to help myself.

But, but that’s like, don’t say sorry for my condition, because there are a lot more people out there who are not able to speak up like how I do it. That’s, that’s why I will continue to feel motivated and to talk about mental health conditions and mental health matters.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, that’s great. Pity is, is never a, a helpful condition, but the type of support and advocacy that you’re able to do because of the situation you’re in, is going to help many people and help educate other people who may not know much about Tourette’s and how they can help support their friends and family members as well.

Peter Zhao: Yes. You’re not alone, and we all can help.

Carolyn Kiel: Wonderful. Yeah. Well, thanks so much, Peter, again, for being on my show. It was great to talk to you today.

Peter Zhao: Likewise. Pleasure to be on your show.

Carolyn Kiel: Thanks for listening to Beyond 6 Seconds. Please help me spread the word about this podcast. Share it with a friend, give it a shout out on your social media or write a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast player. You can find all of my episodes and sign up for my free newsletter at beyond6seconds.net. Until next time.