Episode 148: Limb difference, disability and workplace diversity – with Ruth Rathblott

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The episode transcript is below.

Carolyn Kiel: Hello! Thanks so much for joining me today. I’ve got a really great guest on this episode. Her name is Ruth Rathblott. She’s a TEDx speaker, award-winning CEO and a long-time nonprofit leader who’s been doing a lot of amazing work in diversity and inclusion.

Now most of my episodes lately focus on guests who are neurodivergent, but this episode focuses more broadly on disability. Ruth is not neurodivergent, but she was born with a limb difference – specifically, one of her hands is not fully formed. In this interview, she shares her experience with hiding her hand for a very long period of her life, how she decided to finally stop hiding it, and what her life has been like since then.

She talks about the consequences of hiding: the emotional impact and feelings of isolation, the mental strain, forecasting & planning ahead for social situations, even backing out of plans, not to mention the physical discomfort and long-term physical impact that it had on her. It takes a real toll on so many levels. You’ll get to hear all about that and how she was able to stop hiding and find her freedom.

Now, if you’re listening to this and you’re autistic like me, or if you know any autistic people very well, this might sound familiar. As I heard Ruth share her experiences, I couldn’t help but make a connection in my mind between the hiding she was describing and the concept of autistic masking. If you’re not familiar with autistic masking, it’s when autistic people suppress certain behaviors and change the way that we act, especially in environments that don’t support or tolerate neurodivergent behavior. It’s a very uncomfortable and unnatural feeling in general for us. A lot of times it looks like closely monitoring or making a lot of eye contact when that wouldn’t feel natural to us, observing and copying other people’s behaviors in social situations, practicing and researching “typical behavior”, things like that. And some people may say, “well doesn’t everyone adjust their behavior or hide parts of themselves in certain situations?” I’d say well, this type of masking I’m talking about is much more frequent and common among autistic people and other neurodivergent people as well. A lot of times we’re not even aware that we’re doing it, it’s so ingrained. Plus, it’s not generally to gain an advantage – frequently it’s a survival tactic, to maintain friendships and relationships, to keep employment, even to preserve personal safety and avoid harassment and bullying. Often the consequences of this type of masking, and of not masking, can be really significant and also take a big toll, like the hiding that Ruth was talking about.

So while Ruth’s experience of hiding her hand is not the same as the experience of autistic masking, I am saying that I noticed some similarities. We don’t talk specifically about masking in this episode, but the whole concept of hiding and masking is one that resonates with me, and maybe with you too.

Hopefully Ruth’s story will help inspire people to start thinking about how they can hide less, and show more of their true selves, as well as help us have more empathy and curiosity about the things that our friends, colleagues, family members, and others may be afraid to show, so we can listen to them when they’re ready to share more of themselves and their stories.

Oh, and if you like stories like this, I’d love it if you subscribe to this podcast – I’ve got so many more great stories coming up to share with you this year! Just search for Beyond 6 Seconds on your favorite podcast app or find it at beyond6seconds.net. You can even sign up for my newsletter there to get an email whenever there’s a new episode! Check out the show notes of this episode for more information on how to sign up and subscribe.

And now, let’s get to my interview with Ruth Rathblott! As I mentioned earlier, Ruth is a TEDx speaker and an award-winning CEO who’s committed to creating inclusion for all and providing opportunities for those who face obstacles.

Born with a limb difference, Ruth currently speaks on issues of inclusion and diversity, the gifts of being unique, the freedom of accepting your differences, and rising above life’s challenges.

Ruth has been a leader in nonprofit organizations for more than 25 years, with 15 years at Big Brothers Big Sisters of New York City, and more than eight years as the CEO of the Harlem Educational Activities Fund. She currently serves as a Board Member of The Lucky Fin Project.

Ruth, welcome to the podcast!

Ruth Rathblott: Thank you, Carolyn. I’m excited to be here.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. I’m so looking forward to talking with you about your story and all of the great work that you’ve been doing. So just to start off, tell me about what it was like growing up with a limb difference.

Ruth Rathblott: It’s so interesting. Carolyn, because for the first 13 years of my life, I didn’t even notice that I was different. And I really credit that to my parents. When I was born, it was in the days before sonograms. So I was a total surprise to my parents. And the nurse, luckily that was in the hospital, noticed my mom kind of gently sobbing and bewildered, and went over to my parents and basically said, “you will take this little girl home and you will treat her as you would any other child. You’ll treat her as normal.” And that’s exactly what they did. They encouraged me to try everything, and I did everything.

But what’s funny is at about 13, I was headed to a new high school and, a new co-ed high school, and I started to notice I was different. And so growing up before 13 as a kid, I did everything. I did the jungle gyms. I did gymnastics. I did ice skating, skiing, everything. Theater, student government. But at 13 my life kind of shifted.

Carolyn Kiel: Wow. So was it like other peers started noticing or making comments to you? Or what, how did that come about?

Ruth Rathblott: Yeah. You know what’s funny? When I think about it, and I’ve been doing a lot of work on thinking about it is, that first day of going to that new co-ed high school, I got on the bus and somehow I, Carolyn, made this impulsive decision to hide my little hand and to tuck it into the front left pocket of my, well at that time, it was the eighties, so they were tight jeans. I don’t even know how it fit in there! And I didn’t think it would last beyond that day. And it ended up lasting 25 more years. So I never thought it was going to last that day, let alone that week, let alone all through high school, onto college, and then beyond, until I was about 38 years old. So from 13 to 38, I hid it. And I will say, it really stopped me from living my life in so many ways.

Carolyn Kiel: Wow. Yeah. I can imagine because there’s a lot of like, probably like cognitive and mental processing. If you’re constantly thinking about, whether consciously or subconsciously, about hiding your hand and positioning yourself. Like, what was that process like while you were doing that?

Ruth Rathblott: Yeah, it, I think it started out just thinking I was kind of hiding it from others as to want to fit in, to not want to be judged, to want to fit in as a 13 year old. Like most high schoolers, if people have high school children or remember what it was like to be in high school themselves. I just wanted to fit in.

So it started with tucking it into my pocket. It started with wearing longer sleeves, carrying it under books, making sure when I went from classroom to classroom, that it was tucked under books so I thought no one could see it. Even sometimes sitting on it, sitting on it in class so that no one would recognize it.

And I will say sometimes it became hard. So gym was not fun. I don’t know if gym is fun for most people at certain ages. But also some of the games that you would play in class, you know, to kind of at the holidays, if there was a holiday party and they, there was that old school game. Carolyn, I don’t know if you remember seven up? Head down on the desk. Well, it’s really uncomfortable to put your head down when you’re hiding your hand, because then you’re hiding it. It was just really complicated.

And so I, that turned into a kind of a lifelong obsession with hiding. And to your point, always forecasting and worrying about when I was going to be discovered, or if I’d be discovered. With the real fear that if I were discovered, people wouldn’t like me, they wouldn’t think I could do things. They would judge me. And truthfully, they wouldn’t love me or, and I, it wouldn’t be, I wouldn’t be accepted. And so, yeah, it was constant. Thinking about and backing out of plans, I will say that was another piece of it, is constantly backing out of plans because I’d get too nervous about showing up because it might require using my hand. Whether it was a trip to the beach, whether it was going skiing with friends, I just, I stopped doing the things that I loved and that included also theater. I stopped doing theater. I’d done a lot of theater as a kid. I stopped doing any kind of sports. And I was, while I was in middle school, I was very involved in student government and that kind of, it was like a shutdown. I literally stopped living my life.

Carolyn Kiel: Wow. Yeah. And that, it definitely seems how that is limiting and that it went, that you felt that pressure to hide for so long. At any point, did you ever use or wear a prosthesis or was it literally just moving your hand out of view?

Ruth Rathblott: Yeah, it’s interesting. So I had a prosthesis twice in my life. Once as a baby because the doctors recommended it to my parents because they thought that I wouldn’t have the strength to crawl if I had a prosthesis. As I’ve recalled with my parents that, because I don’t remember that time, they said it was actually really difficult because I would end up hitting my head with the prosthesis. And it was this hard at that time, prostheses were really tough material and I, it was so much tougher than my own skin. So I would get black and blue by learning how to crawl. And they had said, my parents were thinking, she already is working on crawling herself. She doesn’t need this prosthesis.

But about 16 years later, I, they had noticed I was hiding. And I should say that, even though that nurses, that original nurse from when I was born, talked about treating me like any other child, what that meant for my family and for me is we didn’t talk about my difference and my disability.

And so at 16, they started to notice that I had been hiding for a while and that my arms were actually slouching to one side because I was hiding so much. And so kind of, instead of talking about the feelings, we had a pretty solution focused family, and so they went out and they found someone who did excellent cosmetic prostheses, where it literally would match this hand, my right hand and got it done. And I remember taking it. I had gone to boarding school at the time, and I remember taking it back to school and putting it on thinking I’m going to wear it to go to our first boys dance at a different school. And someone on the bus noticed it. And I hadn’t told a lot of people that I was getting it, but I kind of, cause I kinda thought I’ll just fit in now because nobody probably knows about my hand.

And one of the girls said, “oh, my God, that looks so fake. It looks weird.” And that definitely was an interesting message for me because that, all of this idea of, oh, this is going to be the solution to my hiding by having something that almost continued to hide it, but at least looked like two hands. I went to the dance and my biggest fear, Carolyn, was that it was going to fall off the whole time.

And so I made a decision at that point that even after all that money that had been spent on a prosthesis and all that time to perfect it, that I would rather continue to hide my hand than hide it in a prosthesis and worry about it falling off. I could control that part of my life. I could control the hiding. I couldn’t control what the prosthesis was going to do. It wasn’t attached to me.

Carolyn Kiel: Right, right. Wow. So, yeah. So, so many years of that, that hiding and always, constantly thinking about it. So was there a specific point in time or a specific event that it made you start thinking about that you wanted to stop hiding your hand?

Ruth Rathblott: Yeah, like anything it’s been a journey. And I would say one of the first stops on that journey of acceptance about my hand and stopping hiding it, was really letting someone in to show me how to love it. And it’s interesting. I did my senior thesis on a man named Leo Buscaglia, and he talks a lot about that you have to love yourself first before you can let anyone in to love you. And I often disagree with that because for me it was, I needed to let someone in to teach me how to love that part of myself that I found so unlovable. I wasn’t going to get there on my own, I don’t think. I needed to have someone come in and help me love that part.

And so what that person did was they showed me how to love my hand, how to cherish it, how to actually look at it. I had been spending so many years hiding it. I’d actually never looked at it or touched it. I never allowed anyone to touch it. Not even my parents. So for this man to come into my life to show me that part of myself was extremely helpful. And I think that then lent me to a journey of, wow.

I started to meet other people who also had limb differences like mine. And I got involved with a group that you mentioned that the, in my bio, the Lucky Fin Project. There’s a group of people who have very similar limb differences like mine. I didn’t even know that world existed. And that was through a random chance of meeting someone in a local pharmacy. When I was buying paper towels, I noticed out of the corner of my eye, this woman who had a limb difference like mine. And when I started talking to her about it, she said, oh yeah, there’s a whole group of people. I owed social media that definite kudos because it connected me to this amazing group of people.

And I went to a picnic that they held outside of Detroit, Michigan, in Troy, Michigan, where I met over 500 people who had a similar limb difference. I had thought my whole life, I was alone. So all that hiding and that forecasting and that obsession made me think that I was the only one.

And I think that happens a lot because what I’ve come to find on this journey is, so many of us are hiding parts of ourselves. I think that there was a Deloitte study in 2013 that said 61% of employees report to hiding part of themselves in the workplace. And I imagine that number is actually higher, because maybe some people don’t admit to the things that they’re hiding, whether it be their race, whether it be their religion, their political affiliations, their religion, their family backgrounds. And so many of us walk around thinking we’re the only ones. And so that last piece of my journey that I’m now on is that idea of sharing out my story of hiding, with hopes that others will start to feel that they’re not alone.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. And that’s that’s powerful to realize that you are not alone and I’ll have to say for all the, the things that came along with social media. I mean, when I grew up, you know, my, my childhood, there was no internet, there was nothing for so many of us, so you couldn’t really easily find other people who were like you, if they weren’t in your local community or you didn’t like run into them at the pharmacy. So.

Ruth Rathblott: Absolutely, no. And unfortunately my mom passed away six years ago, never knowing that this world of the Lucky Fin Project or other mothers who had children with limb differences existed. She blamed herself for why it happened. And so, yeah, there is power. And you’re right with all the, the grievances that we hold with social media, there’s power in it in terms of feeling connected and feeling a sense of belonging.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah. So you went on to have a long career as an executive in the nonprofit world and, you know, your whole role was providing those opportunities for people who are facing obstacles, like we said in your bio. So when you were at work at any point, did you talk about your disability with anyone or, you know, have any kind of conversations about it there?

Ruth Rathblott: Yeah. You know, it’s interesting. So one of the things that was also part of this journey of acceptance is, at about 20 years old, I had an internship at a law firm. And my job that summer was to showcase the evolution of a laundry detergent box top and why it deserved a patent. And about three weeks into that internship, as exciting as it sounds, it was exciting for a 20 year old to have her own project, the senior partner on the case called me into his office. And he asked me if I had ever been to kindergarten. Now you’re 20 years old. I’m 20 years old and I’m thinking, yeah, I’m in college. I went to kindergarten. But I’m nervous, and I’m, you know, thinking the senior partner’s noticing my work.

Carolyn Kiel: Right.

Ruth Rathblott: He did notice it. He said, “because if you had, you would have learned how to use scissors.” Because the copies I was cutting out I was doing with one hand, and so they were not clean copies. They were not professional looking. They were a mess. But I couldn’t tell him, nor did he ask why. I just left his office and tried to figure out other ways to get the work done so that it would be professional. And so that it would be productive. I started using huge law books to hold down the paper so I could cut with one hand. I found the basement because nobody was down there so that I could do the work with two hands, with both my hands. And what I vowed after that is that I would never in a professional setting, hide my hand again.

And what I realized is, working with kids, you don’t get to hide your hand and you don’t have to, because kids are so awesome at asking and being curious. If they see something that looks a little bit different or they want to know, they just ask. And then they’re over it, Carolyn. Like, hey, what happened to your hand? And then they move on when you talk to them, and it’s over. And I think that’s different than sometimes the reaction I get from adults, because adults won’t ask. So they, they almost stare too long or they do double takes, or they shush kids into not asking questions.

And so I answer your question because yeah, at different points I’ve talked to kids about having a disability and having a limb difference. And it’s interesting, when I’ve talked to adults about it, the conversation is a little bit different. Because I think we’ve been trained to be afraid of questions and curiosity, and that we shouldn’t ask, whereas kids have that wonderful, beautiful mind of curiosity. And so yeah, with kids, I think it’s sometimes what has brought me closer to young people.

I will say, a few years ago, I traveled with some students that I was working with to Nepal. And a lot of the students I’ve worked with are African-American, Hispanic youth. And when we went to Nepal, a lot of people there had never seen Black and brown young people in such a large group.

And so the students felt super uncomfortable. People were staring, people would come up and actually touch their hair. They would touch their skin without asking, like without boundaries. And so we had a lot of time to process that together as a group. And what I realized is that I needed to share with them my experience of people staring, my experience of people coming up and just touching my hand without me giving permission, with people saying really sometimes difficult things. Like just about six months ago, Carolyn, I had someone say to me, “Hey, did you cut your hand off yourself?” Now, this is, what?

Carolyn Kiel: This is an adult asking this question?

Ruth Rathblott: I’ve had adults pray for me in Central Park, walking around the loop, as if that will help me grow or that I’ll feel like I got some protection. I was born this way. It’s probably not at this point going to grow.

So I shared with the students some of those things that happen and how I hid for so many years when I was their age. And I was so afraid of the conversations. I was afraid of being judged. And what was amazing out of that conversation, is they started to open up about other places in their life where they felt uncomfortable, which is such a normal teenage adolescent thing is, you’re exploring, you’re understanding your body. You’re understanding yourself and you feel different and all you want to do is fit in. So I’ve absolutely had the opportunity to share that with the young people I work with. And I think it has connected us in such amazing ways.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. And, and that’s really powerful. There really is that shared experience, there’s such intersectionality with disability and really every other minority or marginalized group that, that, that there is.

Ruth Rathblott: Disability cuts across all lines. It doesn’t discriminate. It doesn’t discriminate with race. It doesn’t discriminate with gender. It absolutely doesn’t discriminate with age. You can be born with a disability. You can develop one as you get older. You can have people in your life, whether it’s family members or friends who have a disability. So I think disability is this, this untalked about part of diversity. And that’s what I’ve started to really build a passion project around is expanding diversity to be fully inclusive.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I’d love to learn more about that. How your passion for, you know, because you, you did so much work in diversity and inclusion throughout your career and then that you’re now a strong proponent of including disability in all of that work.

So yeah. How did you sort of evolve that passion? How did that come about?

Ruth Rathblott: Yeah. You know, I started to, it’s interesting. I started to go to, to your point. I was involved in diversity and inclusion work for a long time, and I started to go to a lot of diversity and inclusion panels and even be on diversity and inclusion panels, and moderate diversity and inclusion panels. And time after time, I was realizing, I never heard the word disability in the conversation. And I knew that it was, there were a number of people who had disabilities, whether it be visible or invisible, but I never heard that talked about. We talked a lot about race and gender and sexual orientation, and there wasn’t a lot of discussion around disability.

And it was interesting, while I was in a meeting about diversity within an organization, I was questioned about what I thought about the diversity piece. And it was interesting. I asked the question, if they saw me as diverse? And the answer back was really kind of strange. It was, “well, you’re a woman.” I said, “yeah, that’s a lens of diversity.” I said, “what about my limb difference? I’m just wondering about that.” And I was told at that time, “I don’t see you that way.” And it was interesting cause I wasn’t actually asking to be seen that way. I was asking for it to be acknowledged as part of the conversation on diversity.

And when I started to reach out to some of the companies that I was working with and some of the peers I had, I was asking them about how they were defining diversity and how I could be included in that conversation. And I was really lucky that one of my first kind of corporate sponsors I reached out to was holding an inclusion week and they invited me to come speak and share my journey around hiding and unhiding. And I started to realize that there was an appetite for it. First people would, in the days when you could come up to people after, when we used to do these things in person, and now even through virtual settings, people contact me after and they say two things, always, Carolyn. They say, thank you for not giving me another lecture on diversity and what I’m not doing, because you’re including me in the conversation by sharing your story. And the second is, thank you for including me as part of the conversation, whether it’s somebody has a physical, visible difference, or they have an invisible difference. Like they’re on a mental health journey and they’re struggling, or they’ve come through it and they want to be included in the conversation.

And so I am grateful that I have a voice to be able to share out and encouraged to share out my journey, but I’m so incredibly excited by the kind of feedback that there is that open space and that people really want to talk about and make workplaces inclusive, and that there’s belonging. And you only do that through including everyone, and making sure everyone has a seat at the table and is represented when we have these conversations. So yeah, it’s a passion for sure. The idea is really to expand diversity so that everyone feels included.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, absolutely. And I’m thinking back to your comment that that person made to you early on about, “I don’t see you that way.” And I’m not sure exactly what they meant by that comment, but it reminds me that, especially with disability and many other, you know, even I’ve heard it with gender is that, you know, I don’t see you as, you know, people have told me, like, “I don’t see you as a woman.” And that’s supposed to be a compliment, but it’s strange. So I don’t know if your experience is similar to that. I think people, I don’t know if they don’t want to acknowledge it because they want to, that they think that makes them more inclusive, but at the same time, it’s, it’s very strange to not acknowledge it and recognize it as part of your own story and the impact.

Ruth Rathblott: Absolutely. And I think, I think it’s part that, right, because it’s it’s to make you feel comfortable like, oh, I don’t see it. But that’s because we have certain stigmas and stereotypes of how we label certain things. Like if I am disabled, that means I am what? If you see me as disabled, that means what I can’t do? Because we define disability as inability rather than ability.

Carolyn Kiel: Right.

Ruth Rathblott: The people. And it’s funny, I’ve thought about this for a long time. The people that I want on my team are those who have seen challenge, who have had to think creatively, who have had to forecast and figure out things before they happen, because they’ve been challenged. I’ve spent my life thinking two or three steps ahead to figure out how to do things.

And so, yeah, you’re absolutely right. It is a strange thing when we don’t acknowledge someone’s difference. Because that’s part of them. It’s not all of them. My hand isn’t all of me, but it’s definitely a part of me. It’s part of my experience, my lived experience. It’s part of how I make decisions. It’s part of how I relate to others and how I can connect with others. That’s the gift and that’s the beauty of it. It’s my uniqueness.

And I think once you get past those tough teenage years, you can start to accept those pieces of yourself that are different, but there’s a lot of time in there. And for me, there was 25 years of really feeling, almost arrested development, where I was stuck in that idea of wanting to fit in.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, definitely. Definitely.

Ruth Rathblott: And can I just say also one of those people who had said, I don’t see you as different, came to apologize about six months later with the idea of, you know what, if I had ever said that about race, that would have been unacceptable. And it was like, yeah, so it’s not acceptable with disability either.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. It’s, it’s all important. And as you said, it’s not, you know, any of our, our character traits or anything like that is not our all entire being, but it, you know, it shapes our entire lives and stories. So it’s, you know, we can’t ignore it really. Yeah. Definitely.

So, and now very recently, I understand you’ve started your own speaking and consulting business, where you talk about, you know, disability and including that in the diversity and inclusion conversation. So what kind of inspired you to go out on your own and start speaking and consulting?

Ruth Rathblott: I think there’s a real need for it. I think that they’re, you know, workplaces are, as I said, when I’ve had people come up to me or reach out to me after I speak and they say, thank you for adding a different lens to the conversation on diversity, I’ve realized there’s an appetite for that. I realized that there is a hunger for it. In terms of people really wanting to hear a different story and be part of something.

And so companies have made diversity and inclusion a priority. I think some companies still are looking for the pathway forward with it. Like, what does it mean to have an inclusive workplace? How do we include diversity on all levels? And so what I offer to companies is that opportunity to not only just share my story for inspiration, quote, unquote, but also then to have employees start to say, this is important. This is how we want to work with each other, this is how we want to be more productive. This is how we want to show up as our full selves in the work. And not necessarily just as our authentic selves, but as our full selves, so that we can really get to know each other. And we can actually understand our strengths, understand our gifts, but understand where we’ve had challenges also, because we spend so much time in the workplace and so many hours. And so this is critical to getting things done and being a real team.

And I would say the other piece is, there’s so many companies that are also limiting the definition of diversity. I mean, I think it’s the, you know, the statistic I read recently was 90% of companies prioritize diversity as part of their agenda.

Carolyn Kiel: Right.

Ruth Rathblott: Only 4% of those include disability in that agenda. So that’s, and that’s got to change and I think it is changing, but I think it was, it’s, it’s an imperative that needs to happen now.

Carolyn Kiel: Absolutely. And I think one of the other challenges with disability in the workplace is that, you know, you have visible disabilities, you have invisible disabilities, so there’s the whole issue of disclosure.

So it’s totally up to individual people, whether they’re, you know, some people have the choice to whether or not they, they want to, or can disclose. So it’s like, how do you create a supportive environment for disabled people who choose not to disclose? And how do you support them, in addition to people who do disclose?

Ruth Rathblott: Yeah, no. And I think back to that conversation with that law partner at the law firm, right. It could have, that conversation could have been so different, right? It could have been, Hey Ruth, I’m curious about your performance. We hired you to, to do work on a project and the results aren’t what we’re thinking. What’s going on? I’m curious, what’s going on. And at that point I may not have been ready to disclose about my disability and all the things I was doing to try to get those pieces of patents cut out. But what it would have done is opened a door so that I knew he was open and receptive to hearing a little bit more.

Because I think as managers, we often focus so much on productivity and performance and we forget about people. So how do we as managers open that. But it’s not just managers. I mean, leadership and management absolutely have a responsibility to creating those conversations and that safe place. And it’s also up to employees to participate. To your point about when do you disclose, what’s the right environment to disclose? How much do you disclose about your, your difference and what you need? And if we actually created a space where accommodations were okayed for everyone, then it wouldn’t be a stigma about people with disabilities needing accommodations. We could ask people, all people what accommodations they need. And I think we have some work to do in this space.

Carolyn Kiel: Definitely. And then, you know, that, that, like that experience that you had with that, that partner and that manager, I feel like. I don’t know. I think it’s also a shift in leadership and management. Traditionally managers, sometimes you go in thinking that you always, you know, you have to like figure out what the problem is, or you have to know the answer ahead of time and you can’t like ask. But no, it’s really like, you really need to be curious and ask about what’s going on before you can make a conclusion about like really anything at this point. So.

Ruth Rathblott: Absolutely. No. And to create that safe workspace for it. The other piece is, and I, when I talk to corporations and I talk to audiences about it, is also about doing the work on yourself first, right? Because we all come in with differences, we all have something that is different. So owning that part of ourselves first is going to be really critical.

And then it’s the listening and learning about other’s differences that is also important. And it’s not what I mean is not that they have to teach you about their difference. It’s that you go out and do the work by yourself. So fascinating, when Black Lives Matter came about, and I know it’s been with us for a really long time and we’ve had major injustice and injustices, but when the George Floyd murder happened, I was running an organization and I had to do a lot of work myself. Not asking my staff to teach me, not asking the young people I worked with or the families to teach me, but to actually go out and learn on my own and then to listen to what people were saying so that I could understand it and that I could create an action strategy that we were as an organization we’re going to do together, but I needed to do that work outside.

Not just to jump on a bandwagon and, and think that people were going to teach me or educate me. That’s not, that wasn’t their job. And similarly, it’s not my job to teach people about disability. It’s my, my job to create inspiration so that someone says, Hey, I know nothing. I’ve never thought about disability as part of diversity. That’s so interesting. Huh. I’d love to see your picture Ruth in the dictionary next to diversity, because disability should be part of that conversation.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, absolutely. There are so many resources out there, again with social media, even just hanging out on disability Twitter. Like there are hashtags, you can follow influencers and just listening in on the conversation instead of, you know, I feel like a lot of, you know, a lot of times people say like they they’ll go to the person in that group and say, okay, teach me what’s going on. But I mean, it’s gotta be exhausting and there’s so many other resources that you can do the work yourself.

Ruth Rathblott: Well, and it’s not a fishbowl. You’re not looking in and thinking, oh, I’m going to learn everything from one person or two people who have a disability. It’s about there, there are so many resources out there and it’s also about, it’s not just about looking inward and thinking who, you know, have someone teach you. But it’s also, who’s not on your team? Who’s not part of your life? So where are people represented? I mean, is, is every voice represented at the table when you’re making decisions that are strategic for a company? Or sometimes not strategic, just, are you taking in voices?

And it’s super hard as a manager because sometimes to your point, you just want to get things done. But sometimes you miss out on the really good ideas because you haven’t, and I am guilty of it for sure, of not taking all voices in. And I have learned a lot on this journey for sure. But I do think the inclusive inclusion part is going to be critical to how we succeed moving forward. I think we’ve all learned that through COVID is connection and inclusion is critical to how we are going to survive.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So what kind of long-term goals do you have for your speaking and consulting business?

Ruth Rathblott: Yeah. So next step. So I just finished a TEDx and it’s coming out this week is what I’m told. So it’s super exciting. I can’t wait to share it with you. And then the next venture is a book. So I have the, a book, and working and wrestling with what that book is, because I do think there’s a story to share. I have a motto on next to my computer that my story needs to be shared.

And so it’s, yeah, it’s a book and it’s the ideas of, how do we think about hiding and unhiding? How do we think about creating belonging in workplaces, so that people can feel like they don’t have to hide. Because my goal truly I help companies achieve belonging. And so that’s the goal.

And so I think the book is next. I feel like every time I hit one mountain and I’m sure this is not uncommon, then there’s a next one, and then the next one. So long-term is to really build out the speaking, the coaching and consulting and be part of workplaces that really want to drive inclusion.

Carolyn Kiel: Right. Oh, that’s fantastic. Yeah. And I’ll, I’ll get the link for your TEDx Talk and put it in the show notes because by the time this comes out, that link will be active, so. Oh, very cool. Awesome.

Yeah, Ruth, it was great talking to you today. How can people get in touch with you if they want to learn more about your, your speaking or the, the other type of work that you do?

Ruth Rathblott: Yeah, they can definitely check out my website, which is my first and last name, RuthRathblott.com, or they can follow me, I think Carolyn, this is my favorite part, is they can follow me on LinkedIn and connect with me and share ideas. It’s so interesting. I put out a poll recently on LinkedIn, kind of a random, it was my first poll ever. And it was “should disability be included in the conversation on diversity?” And I had such amazing, I think over 60,000 people viewed it. , over 2,500 people commented on it. And there was an interesting dialogue. And so for people who are curious and interested in the conversations around diversity and inclusion and belonging, it’s such an easy place to kind of get to.

And I love being challenged and hearing ideas because that’s the way that we’re going to grow this thing, is not by my siloed mindset. It’s by growth mindset and how do we work together and, and hear different ideas. So, yeah, connecting with me on LinkedIn and thinking about ideas together is, is awesome.

Carolyn Kiel: Okay. Cool. All right. Yeah. And I’ll drop a link to your website and your LinkedIn profile in the show notes too, along with the TEDx speech.

Awesome. So, yeah, as we close out, is there anything else that you’d like our listeners to know or anything that they can help or support you with?

Ruth Rathblott: No, I think, I mean, definitely with the TEDx. I appreciate you putting in the show notes. It’s, you know, I want it to go viral because I think the message is really important.

The title of the talk is When I Stopped Hiding, I Found Freedom. So when I stopped hiding, because it’s true, I found freedom. I was able to start living my life again and experiencing joy. I got my life back. And so I think with your listeners, what’s critical is the idea of thinking about your own self, thinking about their own differences and then thinking about who is represented their life, and who’s not at the table with them.

And so exploring that piece and reaching out with ideas and getting involved, becoming an ally and an advocate for things that, for difference.

Carolyn Kiel: Fantastic. Oh, that’s wonderful. Yeah. Well, thanks so much Ruth for being on my show. It was great talking with you.

Ruth Rathblott: No, thanks for exploring all of the topics and being open to this conversation. I really appreciate it, Carolyn. Really. Thank you.

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