Episode 199: Neurodivergent personal trainer & weightlifting champion Bayley Garnham

The episode transcript is below.

Carolyn Kiel: Welcome to Beyond 6 Seconds, the podcast that goes beyond the six second first impression to share the extraordinary stories of neurodivergent people. I’m your host, Carolyn Kiel.

Carolyn Kiel: On today’s episode, I’m speaking with Bayley Garnham, a 23 year old personal trainer from Auckland, New Zealand. As a teenager, Bayley spent seven years competing in Olympic Weightlifting at a national level. He has a bachelor’s degree in Sport and Recreation with a major in Sport and Exercise Science.

Bayley was diagnosed with dyspraxia and dysgraphia at the age of 12, and he’s passionate about promoting the benefits that physical activity brings for neurodivergent people. Bayley, welcome to the podcast!

Bayley Garnham: Thank you very much for having me on, Carolyn. It’s great to be here.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, very happy to have you here and to learn more about your story. So to start off, how did you discover that you have dyspraxia and dysgraphia?

Bayley Garnham: Yeah, so it was in year eight. So I was probably 12 years old. And we always kind of knew that I was a little bit slow when it came to reading and writing and just general tasks, and my parents even brought up in primary school with my teachers at the time and they were like, oh, it’s just a, it’s just a late, you know, late learner.

But it wasn’t until my art teacher in year eight, she noticed the way that I was, my like hand patterns and how I was drawing things or just painting. And it’s like, oh, she brought it up at our parent teacher interview. And she was like, oh, there’s, there’s something not right with Bayley. I guess she tried to go around it in a very nice way. But really she was just saying that I don’t think there’s, his brain and you know his body isn’t connected so well and she said we should go get a learning test. And we went and got one and lo and behold it came up with dyspraxia and dysgraphia. So really it was just down to someone looking at how I moved my hands when I draw, which is quite fascinating to me that someone could pick that up.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. I mean, that, that is surprising that someone could notice it from just that movement, but I guess sometimes it just takes that one teacher or person to notice that, you know, something is, is not as expected and to ask those questions. So it’s good to be able to get the evaluation from there.

So, I mean, what was your life like growing up with dyspraxia and dysgraphia since you didn’t really find out what, what was going on until you were about 12?

Bayley Garnham: I mean, to be honest, thinking about back to when I was younger, I didn’t really see anything as being a problem, you know, or like, anything too frustrating probably when I was younger, like primary school and everything. I don’t really remember too much. I think it was more coming into like intermediate. So, year seven. So I was 11 years old where it’s kind of started to affect me in terms of sports. And I’m very, very into sports and like anything that I did sports wise, I gave my all.

So I think that’s where it affected me the most, where I would give my a hundred percent at something, and it was never good enough. When I was playing cricket, it was the thing of, I was doing all the extra practice, all the one on one sessions with coaches, and mum and dad would pay for us, and my family were, and it was never enough. And then I had mates and friends who didn’t take it as seriously as I did, and they were still getting into these high level teams. So I think that’s where the biggest frustration and I could say differences that I’ve seen in my life growing up was no matter how hard I worked, I was never quite that good enough at the time when I was younger. That was probably the most frustrating thing.

Learning wise, I guess I think I was just kind of. a late, a late learner. So that’s what I always kind of thought. But I never thought too much of it. It was probably my mom and dad and my family has thought more about that side. I thought about the sport side and especially out and kind of out in the fields at lunchtime and everything more in intermediate, it was quite a big thing. But I did get quite bullied a lot for it. If we were playing sports or something at lunchtime, because I was slower or dropped the ball more or something. When you’re with a group of boys, that’s kind of a big thing at that age. So, there was quite a bit of bullying from, like, year 7, year 8, those two years, the first two years of what we call intermediate here in New Zealand. So, that was where it affected me the most and probably took the most toll on me personally.

And then, probably for my family, it would have been the schoolwork. So, just, you know, a simple task is… I don’t know, maybe like writing a one page report might take someone half the time that it took me. You know, I took double time. So that meant mom and dad had to stay with me for longer, you know, at nighttime working on schoolwork. So I think initially it probably affected them more than it affected me in a schoolwork sense, but emotionally and physically in the sports side of things that affected me the most growing up. I think that’s a thing with every, or a lot of kids that I’ve met now with dyspraxia and dysgraphia or anything like that, it’s, especially when you get boys, and I train quite a lot of young boys, that’s what gets them is the, it’s the social side of it in the sporting sense. Yeah, that’s where it affected me the most before finding out.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. And that sounds frustrating, especially to not know why it’s so difficult for you, because you were obviously very interested in sports and you were passionate and you loved it. So yeah, to not know what was going on sounds really frustrating. Yeah.

Bayley Garnham: And it’s especially like in New Zealand here, rugby’s a big thing. Our ball sports a very big thing here. So they also comes with kind of a maybe a little bit of a social pressure. Also, really in a general sense, as a boy, it’s growing up, it’s sports and those type of physical activities, there’s more of a social pressure here that I would say. That’s quite a big thing.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, I guess shortly after you got your diagnoses, you discovered personal training. I think you were still like in your early teens around that. How did that come about?

Bayley Garnham: So, I used to play golf for a company or there was a company called Few Way Flyers that ran like youth golf tournaments and training programs and and stuff like that. So they did a eight week kind of strength course and me at the time being 12 years old, you know, and a skinny little white boy and I didn’t look like I picked up a weight at all. My parents were like, Oh, this will be a really, this will be a good thing. And so I did it.

And that’s where I found out a lot about just my physical deficiencies that I had. And the guy who took it, Mike Schofield, who I’m sure we’ll talk about later on. And he was like my weight lifting coach and a huge part of my life. He was the trainer that took it. I just really clicked to liking the gym, and mum and dad saw the benefits and my family saw the benefits. And so Mike was a personal trainer at the gym that that we did it at, so mum and dad were like, hey, can you train Bayley twice a week, do PT sessions? And so we did that all the way up until I started Olympic Weightlifting, then he coached me further on, but that’s how I kind of got introduced into the personal training training slash gym side of everything was through golf, and then it was a long process through there. So it’s been, well I’m 23 now, so it’s been 11 years, you know, 12, 11 years I’ve pretty much consistently gone to the gym or done some form of weightlifting. So it’s been a huge, over half of my life, really, is being in a gym.

Carolyn Kiel: And what was it about personal training and even weightlifting that really clicked with you? How did you get into that weightlifting too?

Bayley Garnham: Looking back at it now, I’ve always been quite an individualistic person in terms of sporting. So, team sports were never my thing. You know, it never satisfied me enough, or I always felt maybe a bit of pressure, just I was letting people down and everything. So I liked the individuality of weightlifting or just going to the gym because it’s all on you. Whatever you, the effort you put in is what you get out of it. And there’s a great step by step process to learning things. And that’s why I think with Mike, it was really good personal training, because over time you develop that relationship and they get to know you so they know what steps to take. And that’s why I liked it so much as it was really individual and tailored to me. And it was with someone in a space where I could feel comfortable and just be myself.

I think that’s a really important thing for teenagers and even for the ones that I train now with neurodivergencies, it’s being a person and providing a space that’s comfortable. They can be themselves. They feel safe and they’re not afraid to, you know, muck up or do something wrong and they’re not going to get backlash for it.

So, I like that and that’s why I kind of took to personal training and before, Olympic Weightlifting, just gym and weightlifting training in general, was the step by step and you could see the progress really clearly. And anyone who’s listening who’s gone to the gym or has had a PT or anything, I’m sure they can, they can say the same. You see the progressions. And you feel them as well. So yeah, that’s why, that’s why I liked, liked it so much.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Yeah. I can see that ability to see progress week by week or session over session and where you’re building strength and lifting more weight and such, is you know, it’s, it’s a good feedback loop, whereas maybe with sports it’s harder because you’re with a team. So you don’t, you’re kind of reliant on the rest of the team. Yeah. And I can see having that private space too is important as well.

Bayley Garnham: And it was also not even just the weight side of things, but like I’ve said in magazines and other stuff, interviews that I’ve done, it’s even just things like I could never do just a simple lunge. My balance was always off. Or even just being able to do like a pushup or something, real basic stuff that I couldn’t do. And the fact that over time I could then just be able to move my own body, now I look back at it, that was a really big thing, and that was a really big confidence thing, like I felt confident in my own body and I could move it. And so even without the weight side of things, just, the body weight training side of things initially at the start was really that catapult that started, started the love for it.

Carolyn Kiel: So yeah, there are a lot of moves that you need even before you get to lifting weights in terms of like building your overall, like your core strengths and such, like lunges and pushups and squats and all of those things. Were those challenging for you to learn and like, what was your process for learning them?

Bayley Garnham: Really the one I can really only remember was doing a lunge and we were able to break it down into segments of the movement. So, like, for example, so I’m going to start with the quadriceps. And he’d support, there’s one leg in front, one leg behind, and he’d support my back leg by holding that down, and hold a stick. And so it helped balance me. And then I just practiced moving up and down. And then we just went from, okay, he’s not going to hold my foot, and I’m going to have to stay in a static lunge and hold the stick. Then we moved to, okay, I’m going to do more of a dynamic lunge, where double feet together, step back, lunge down, bring the foot back to get, bring the feet back together, then step back. So, it was a lot of breaking down the movements, regressing them, so making it easier and then progressing them, progressively making it harder.

But a lot of it, yeah, it was time and repetitions as well. Just repeating the same thing over and over again, no matter how long it took. You know, we’d probably did, I’d say the big sessions that we spent a good half of it just doing the same thing over and over again. So that was from a lunge side of view. Like from a weights point of view, I think we just started with the bar pretty much or even just a little wooden stick and we just went through the movements of it. A lot of, a lot of physical corrections, a lot of filming where I could kind of see what was happening. And from there, there really would just, as I got better and more confident, he’d put more weight on and whenever he felt like I could go up, I went up. You know?

It was just breaking a lot of things down and that’s as much as I can remember to be honest. It’s been, it’s been a long time since I did the personal training with, with Mike just in the gym. So yeah, breaking down movements and a lot of physical corrections at the start.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And that’s really helpful to know that, you know, even with dyspraxia that tends to impact your coordination, many people can still learn to do things like personal training and weightlifting and physical activities like that. You may just need different ways of instruction. So it sounded like your trainer was able to, to figure that out.

Bayley Garnham: And that’s what I think a lot of like, I’ve met with families and kids, that’s the one thing that that’s, that’s a big concern is I’ve got this, this child or even, you know, adults is what I did, like, Hey, I’m like this. And it’s against the normal textbook stuff, so finding someone who understands or is ready to go outside the box and not do the normal is quite a, I think it’s a daunting thing, and there’s not, there’s not a lot of people around who, who I think would take the time like Mike did with me, with it being, you know, back in 2011 and 12, but neurodivergency being not as well known as what it is now. So that was a huge thing that he took the time to go away and research and really listened to me and, and Try one thing and go, okay, that’s not going to work. Let’s move on to another thing.

Carolyn Kiel: Now you have your own personal training practice and you train, I think, all kinds of people. So people, you know, who are neurodivergent, people with other disabilities and such. So I guess how, how is your approach different with, with those types of clients? Because you mentioned just now that you in some ways think out of the box or have different ways of training. When you’re working with a client, how do you figure out the best way to train them for their goals?

Bayley Garnham: A lot of it is just talking and to be honest. And it depends what type of age group you have. If I’ve got like maybe kids who are my age when I started, like those teenagers, a lot of it is, I take it first is the personal relationship with them. To really get to know them, get that trust. And it’s just making it fun. Like, I don’t focus too much on arbitrary goals. You know, like, okay, let’s try this by this this time. Let’s do this many reps by this time. It’s with the neurodivergent teenagers and just teenagers in general, it’s about making it fun. And the first, you know, if I’m putting a number on it, three months is just I want them to come in and enjoy being here, and leave and go, we had a lot of fun.

That’s if they’re not athletes. If they’re athletes, it’s like some teenage athletes they have, then it’s a little bit different. But in a general sense, even for them as well, I just want them to come in, trust me and have fun. So that’s the first step I take with anyone, it’s just developing that great personal relationship and that trust. And then from there, you know, there’s a basic kind of movement analysis that I do with, with anyone, no matter who it is, just to see, you know, is their body, like, do they have one side that’s stronger than the other? Do they favor one side when they squat more? Or stuff like that. So there’s, there’s a general kind of movement analysis that I do. And that normally takes, say, the first kind of month to six weeks of training with me, and I’m just going to be looking at a lot of different movements.

Nothing’s going to be the same every session. It’s going to be different things. And from there, I kind of make notes, write everything down so that after that, after that month to six weeks, I’ve got all this data and all this knowledge of how they move and we can go on to something more structured. But, rarely is there any one training session I have with someone that’s the exact same. What I do with them is the same and how I am personally is the same.

Carolyn Kiel: That relationship it sounds like is really important and, you know, and especially like, like with your situation, you had already had a very difficult time with sports. So you and I’m sure other teenagers are coming in with probably a lot of maybe, you know, maybe worries or insecurities about things that maybe they couldn’t do in the past. Maybe they’ve tried other things. So I think it makes a lot of sense to spend a lot of time building that relationship and just really understanding what people’s individual capabilities are.

Bayley Garnham: And I think it’s just been like, with teenagers, especially, it’s being relatable. And I think that’s why I have some success with teenagers, because I’m still only 23, I’m still quite young, so to them, I’m still more relatable. And I think with personal training as well, it’s like 50 50 knowledge of what you know, 50 50 personality. I I think you can have all the knowledge in the world, but if you’re not personable and don’t know how to talk or don’t know how to connect with people in a way that suits them, you’re, you’re not gonna succeed or you’re not going to be able to translate your knowledge over. So while I might not be the most knowledgeable and I know I’m not, it’s the knowledge that you have, how can you best translate that so that the person you’re trying at the time understands that knowledge?

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. That’s a big part of it.

So, you have spent, as you said, half your life in the gym, essentially, and you’ve talked about physical benefits and things for weightlifting and personal training. Have you found that weightlifting has helped you in other ways as well, like self confidence or just other things for your life?

Bayley Garnham: Yeah. I actually read this, read a study early last week and it talked about resistance training to weight training and stress levels and managing stress. And what the study concluded and what I read on from there, some other studies, is resistance training and weights training puts your body under a stress, right? You’re putting your body through stress. So what they found over long study periods of people who are resistance training and you know, in their general lives, they could handle stress better compared to someone who wasn’t doing resistance training or weight training. So I think that that really resonated with me as something that I think that’s what’s helped is I can, because I’m used to putting my body under a immense amount of stress, I can actually mentally handle a lot. So that side of it’s been really great as well.

And then, yeah, coordination, definitely. And while it takes time to get there, you know, I look at some of the people in my life and they maybe don’t do resistance training, even though I’ve got the learning disorder, I can do things a lot easier than they can or a lot better. So, coordination, even in sports, just because you’re in the gym, moving weights doesn’t mean, it doesn’t translate over into more practical sporting functional movements, right?

And yeah, confidence, like kind of my identity is the gym and is training. So it gives me a sense of I know who I am. I know what triggers me and what doesn’t emotionally. And the gym gives me a sense of I’ve, no matter how I’ve had a really bad day or really busy day or stressful day, I know that, okay, end of the day or sometime throughout the day, I’ve got an hour, an hour and a half where I can just work out and be like, let everything out, you know? And give myself time to just mentally unwind.

So it’s giving, it’s giving me a safe space and that’s what I think a great benefit is, is, you know, teenagers or anyone, you know, we all live such busy lives because we work, if you’ve got kids, you know, it’s friends, girlfriends, boyfriends, whatever, right? We don’t have a lot of time to ourselves to do what we want. And I think the gym is a really great thing for that as it’s a time for you to come in and go, like, I’m going to focus on myself for a given period of time.

Carolyn Kiel: That makes sense. It’s, you know, it’s, it’s stress relief and it’s an individual activity where you have, you have time to yourself and you’re focusing on, you know, doing something positive for yourself. Yeah, absolutely.

Bayley Garnham: And then just in general, like joint health, bone health, you’re a lot stronger, so you avoid those, you avoid those little mishaps of picking up something wrong and there goes a back, or, you know, stepping wrong, ah, there goes a knee, you know? Structurally you’re a lot more sound, so that gives me a sense of kind of mental peace that, okay, I know if someone needs help with moving something, I can relatively handle it alright, or I’m not scared of lifting something wrong, hurting my back, injuring myself.

So that’s another huge benefit that I kind of try to promote for anyone is, don’t just look at it from a physical exterior point of view. Like, oh, you can have bigger shoulders, bigger your legs, or more toned body. It’s actually functionally you’re gonna move a lot better and you’re gonna feel a lot better day to day, if you stick at it long enough. So it’s a great longevity thing.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. And even knowing how to do those movements, like knowing how to properly lift something up. Because I think, you know, if you don’t know, you’d wind up lifting with your back and then eventually that’s going to get you in trouble, but yeah, exactly.

Bayley Garnham: And I, I see a lot of that, a lot of that. People coming in to training and being like, oh, shoot we pulled our back. You know, like, pre existing back issues when, if it’s a new client when I start training, they’re all, if they haven’t done it for a while, and in general, there’s always something that’s gone wrong. And I’ve never, like, while I’ve had knee problems and shoulder problems with competing and weightlifting and training at a higher level, I don’t have those long term injuries yet, fingers crossed. I don’t yet. As I’ve got friends who are my age and they’ve got knee problems because they played football for so long.

Carolyn Kiel: That’s right. Cause yeah, I guess sports injuries, like I don’t, I don’t, I don’t know as much about cricket and rugby over here in, in the States, but I know they’re very, they seem like very high contact sports and a lot of potential for injuries. So yeah, I can see that being an issue.

Bayley Garnham: Yeah. Yeah. So I think that’s, that’s the main benefit that I see people get from it like my clients or I try, you know, out there is not everyone wants to be big and bulky and look muscular and like, and that’s fine. You don’t need to. But as long as you come in here, you know, and I say to everyone, you don’t have to enjoy it, but just as long as you come in here and do two to three sessions a week of some weight training or something with weights, do it for your body. You know, we’ve only got one body. Why not take care of it as best as we possibly can?

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

And for a while in your teens, you were competing in Olympic Weightlifting. How did you make the decision to try out competing and what was that like? Like, how was that different from your regular training that you do?

Bayley Garnham: So Mike really, how it started was he’d teach me how to deadlift. And I remember when I was 12, I deadlifted 100 kilos for the first time. And he goes, Oh, this kid’s strong, you know, like it’s got the best strength to him. And he goes, “Oh I’m starting a learn to Olympic Weightlifting course at AUT Millennium,” which is where I work now. So I train where I work at the moment. And he goes, “Oh, I’m trying this. Do you want to come down? You know, there’ll be kind of teenagers slash young adults.” And. I was like, “yeah, why not?” So we came to here and trained with Mike and just kind of fell in love with it ever since.

And I think it was because it was Mike who was taking it. So I kind of, it was almost probably a no brainer. But I remember my parents and grandparents were worried because where we trained for the first couple of years was like this, not a dungeon, but you know, like downstairs in what’s now the high performance area. And it’s, you know, you’ve got these shirtless men and, and strong, you know, strong females and bars are dropping, music is blaring, and they’re like, “is this the place for our 13 year old kid to be at?” You know? I loved it. I loved it.

And I think what got me initially was just being around older people and being around people with a, a goal and a purpose that was higher than just, you know, wanting to train to be healthy. It was kind of like, Hey, we’re pushing these numbers. We’re trying to get to these competitions. Everyone’s on a mission. Everyone’s missions will be different, but everyone’s still supported each other really well. So that’s what initially got me into it.

And then, the difference between Olympic Weightlifting and your normal resistance weightlifting is Olympic Weightlifting, we compete with two movements called a snatch, which is pretty much, if anyone’s watched the Olympics and watched weightlifting in the Olympics, that’s what it is. That’s what I did. So it was the snatch, where you pretty much lifted the bar from the floor, straight up over your head. And then we had what we call the clean and jerk, was you would lift the bar onto, and you’d bring it onto your, kind of, shoulder area, and then you’d press it above your head. But it was a lot more technical. So it was very technical. So you really just focus on those, those two types of movements. That’s the movements that you win the competition or you lose, you know, that’s what you judged on. So I liked that because you could only focus on two things, you know? And I didn’t have to focus on much besides those two things. And while those two things were technical, I know what I’m coming in to do, and knew what I had to work on, really. It’s very technical. You spend so much time with a wooden stick and a bar and no progress, to one day you just suddenly it clicks and you get progress.

That’s kind of the main differences. You have like accessory movements, what we call accessory movements, like your squats, your deadlifts, you know, your typical stuff like your lat pulldowns, your tricep dips, all those type of general gym movements, but the main core of it was quite different. And your body’s not used to moving in those type of ways with your arms and the crunch being really far out. Your body’s not used to that. So to get good at something that’s not really, well to get all right at, it was quite a empowering feeling.

Carolyn Kiel: Wow. Yeah. Thanks for taking me through the Olympic Weightlifting. So, I guess you’re not competing currently, because you’re focused now on your own practice, is that right? For personal training?

Bayley Garnham: Yeah. So yeah, when I started, when I was in my last year university, and I did my placement for university. So we worked for a year in the organization and that happens to be where I am now. I’m a very all in, all out person. So if I don’t give 100% something, I don’t bother doing it. It’s a good and a bad thing. So I was kind of starting to get to the point where, okay, where can weightlifting get me versus where could the placement at the time get me? And I saw the opportunity to go and I’m here, you know, come to work upstairs in the gym here and pretty much in essence try get a job right out of uni. And I thought okay I’m gonna give my 100% to this. And weightlifting, while I didn’t get to represent New Zealand, which I wish I did, at the time it got me to the point where I was like, okay, I’m satisfied with what I’ve done, and I know I’m not going to be the best, but hey, I’ve got a pretty good knowledge in it more than a general person, a general gym person. So I felt like it gave me enough of an edge and my now job it’s a bit of a benefit.

Carolyn Kiel: That’s good. And do you train clients now who are like training for competitions or is it mainly like general physical fitness?

Bayley Garnham: No, I’ve got, not weightlifting competitions, but I’ve got a few athletes. A couple of water polo players, swimmers. And I’ve got a para triathlete, who we’re trying to qualify for the Paralympics next year. So working with him really tightly. He was just over in California, out your guys’ way in America last week competing and racing. And in September, August, well, I’ll go to Spain with him to the world triathlon champs. And kind of either me and his triathlon coach or just me, we’ll go over and be a support group for him. So that’s a, a lot of my time is spent with him and doing all these competitions and going through the steps to qualify him for the Paralympics next year.

Rugby, you know, rugby kids. That’s about it. Otherwise it’s you know, general people just want to train to, to be better. Neurodivergent kids, older people, younger people, middle aged people, everyone really.

Carolyn Kiel: Do particular clients seek you out or is it just sort of who comes to the gym? Because I think it’s really cool that you have a lot of neurodivergent kids because you have a specialty in that. So do they know that you have that specialty when they come to the gym?

Bayley Garnham: No, not the neurodivergent side of it. A lot of it has just been through, you know, sharing my story. Doing, doing this. The Dystinct Magazine, which I was featured in. We have an organization over here called Speld in New Zealand who provide like tutors and train like tutors and teachers or even parents if they want to, to go into schools and help neurodivergent kids. And they provide tools for parents, everything. I’ve done two webinars with them. And that’s how I’ve kind of got the neurodivergent side of things, it’s through doing that. So people find out my story, and they come train with me, the kids, and then it’s been word of mouth from there. But, otherwise, people will just come to the gym, you know, we’ve got the sign up, and they go, “we want a PT,” and our gym team and receptionists will take them up to the board and introduce them to everyone and that’s how sometimes it gets done. But a lot of it is word of mouth. And just, even just being in the gym, people see you training someone, they may think about it and they come up to you, they’re like, “Hey, we want to do some PT sessions.” That’s how it gets built from there.

Carolyn Kiel: All right. Very cool. Yeah. And that’s great that the word of mouth helps build up your practice as well. And, and you find clients through that. That’s so cool!

Well, Bayley, thank you, thank you so much for telling me about your personal story and all of the great work that you’re doing with, with personal training for, you know, all kinds of people, including neurodivergent people, disabled people and people of all ages and, and from everywhere.

So, like, how can people get in touch with you if they want to learn more about the type of work you do, whether it’s, you know, training or advocacy or anything that you’re involved with?

Bayley Garnham: They can email me. Probably that’s the best way. They can email me, it’s just BayleyGarnham at gmail. com. B A Y L E Y G A R N H A M, all one word, all lowercase, at gmail. com. It’s probably the easiest way to do it, yeah, through my email in terms of getting in contact with me. And it doesn’t have to just be about personal training. You know, I’m also keen if you just want to contact me about, you know, you’ve got someone in your family and just talk about the story, or do a Zoom call like this, or, you know, sit down, you know, anything. I’ve always said to people, it doesn’t just have to be about wanting to do personal training, it can just be general chats.

And yeah, advocating for neurodivergency, like, like you do Carolyn, with this podcast, and that’s what I’m keen to do more of. So if anyone knows of anywhere where I can do that, then please let me know and get in contact with me. Because that’s, that’s a passion of mine is to spread awareness for it, and more so probably in my professional sense, spread awareness for what benefits are for fitness and for gym training because I don’t think it’s talked about enough a lot. I think that the benefits that come with gym training and fitness are really overlooked and underutilized. So it’s a mission of mine is to bring that more to the forefront as well.

Carolyn Kiel: That’s awesome. Yeah. I’ll put your contact info, your email in the show notes so that people can contact you through there. And yeah, thank you so much for being so open with your story with my listeners and, and anyone else who wants to reach out and learn more. So thank you for that.

Bayley Garnham: Thank you very much.

Carolyn Kiel: Thanks for listening to Beyond 6 Seconds. Please help me spread the word about this podcast. Share it with a friend, give it a shout out on your social media, or write a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast player. You can find all of my episodes and sign up for my free newsletter at beyond6seconds.net. Until next time.