Episode 230: Neurodiversity-affirming support for autism and ADHD – with Samar Waqar of Kind Theory

The episode transcript is below.

Carolyn Kiel: Welcome to Beyond 6 Seconds, the podcast that goes beyond the six second first impression to share the extraordinary stories of neurodivergent people. I’m your host, Carolyn Kiel.

Carolyn Kiel: Today I have a really special episode for you. This episode is part of the third edition of Podcasthon, which is a coordinated effort among more than a thousand podcast hosts from around the world, who for one week are highlighting a charity of their choice to raise awareness and support for important causes.

And on today’s special Podcasthon episode of Beyond 6 Seconds, I have the pleasure of speaking with Samar Waqar, the founder and executive director of Kind Theory. Samar also serves as a neurodiversity advocate, advisor, and consultant. Samar has experience in education, information analysis, and operations management. And being neurodivergent herself, her passions include neurodiversity education, disability rights, inclusion, improving accessibility, and social justice. Samar, welcome to the podcast.

Samar Waqar: Thank you so much for having me, Carolyn. I appreciate the opportunity. And before we start and go into any discussions, I just want to say I love the name so much of your podcast, Beyond 6 Seconds.

It is just, you know, amazing. I read the story behind it, why you chose that name. And I absolutely love that.

Carolyn Kiel: Thank you very much. Yeah, I appreciate hearing that.

Samar Waqar: I would request if you could, like, share a little bit of like in two liners, and I know I’m not supposed to be doing this, but I want our audience to know why you chose this name because it’s very important.

Carolyn Kiel: Oh, absolutely.

Yeah. So I chose the name Beyond 6 Seconds. It was probably the last thing that I came up with right before I started this podcast in 2018. And it started as a very general interview show with a whole variety of topics, but I based it on a statistic I had read somewhere online that recruiters, when looking at your resume for a job, only looked or spent about six seconds to make a judgment as far as I’m going to move forward or I’m going to pass on a particular person’s experience. And while I’m not quite sure how valid that statistic is, it made for a good name for a podcast, in terms of the fact I wanted to go beyond those six second first impressions. And you know, there’s a lot of things that we have first impressions of people that, we make them all the time, and they only take a couple of seconds.

And then when I pivoted to focus on neurodiversity in 2022, I said, well, this name still holds because for so many neurodivergent people, um, they get judged very quickly within those six seconds or maybe a little more, a little less. And, um, yeah, just really wanting to give people their own opportunities to share beyond just first impressions to really hear people’s true stories and what motivates them and the impact that they’re having.

Samar Waqar: I love that. I’m sure that, um, within the neurodivergent community, a lot of us have gone through instances where people have judged us. Or people have formed opinion about our skills or our talent or our worth really, um, in those first few seconds or first few minutes. And so I love the name.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much. Yeah, so I would love to learn more about your organization as well and, and what inspired you to get started with it. So yeah, tell me a little bit about Kind Theory and what inspired you to start it.

Samar Waqar: So, um, it, it goes back to tying in what your name of the podcast is, right?

My, my son was, um, identified as autistic when he was 18 months old. And I always say that you don’t do for yourself what you do for your children. And so I started observing, um, kind of like how he is being integrated into whatever is happening around me, right? Like, little things as how are people treating him, how are people responding to his stims, how, you know, even though he was very little, I just started noticing all these things, right?

And what I noticed was that every time he struggled with something, and I discussed with his team of providers, there was always a therapy recommended, there was always something that needed him to try to fix something on his part. But, when I looked at the other side, there was nothing being done on the other side to accommodate his needs, right? It’s, it’s a two way street really.

And, um, at that time, I was also going through a burnout. Um, and so I kind of like saw this huge need of education, in terms of like, why do all neurodivergent people have to make all the effort. Not just one effort or an effort. They have to make all the effort to kind of like fit in, to get the basic accommodations or to get that same level of grace that would be extended to everyone else without, you know, any questions asked. Sure, there’s a difference of support needs. Sure, there’s a difference of, you know, a lot of things, but that doesn’t change the value of who a neurodivergent person is as a human being. Right?

And so I reached out to, well the first thing I did was I would invite family over and just talk about this. Right? And then what I started doing was I started networking with a lot of autistic advocates. And I told them that there’s a gap. I see resources out there about autism, ADHD, and what I see is that they’re providing services to “fix the symptoms,” and what they’re not doing is observing what is it lacking in the world around us that does not accommodate for the way our brains operate.

And so that was a concept that was immediately appreciated by a lot of neurodivergent people. And I reached out to Dr. Morénike Giwa Onaiwu, Dr. Laura Weldon. Those were our first founding board members. And it just was, the rest was history. Like everybody just started jumping on board, um, you know, volunteering to help really.

So that’s how it all started.

Carolyn Kiel: Oh, wow. And what’s the overall mission of Kind Theory in terms of, you know, what your overall goals are, what the main mission is of the organization?

Samar Waqar: So we have, um, if you look at our website, we have an official mission statement and vision listed out there. But it all started with just simple kind of like creating neurodiversity acceptance. And not just like a general person giving that education, but people with lived experiences. So we started with a model that we’re going to focus on making spaces more inclusive and kind of like making more accommodating, and every resource and every opportunity and everything that comes for us is going to originate from lived experiences.

So that’s how we started initially. And we were virtual. And I, I like to joke here that we became global before we were local because we were, we didn’t have any budget. We didn’t have anything. And we just started from, you know, nothing in hand, really just with knowledge.

And what happened was that, um, being in Texas, I started getting involved in the local community. And I saw a great need for neurodiversity affirming education here. And in, in kind of like making and developing those relationships, I was informed that there are neurodivergent people here locally that need support. And so I was like, yes, we’re trying to create those spaces. Yes, but there are people who are within our community who do not have access to neurodiversity affirming support at all.

So what we started doing in 2024 was, um, we started creating programs. And so really now our mission has evolved from giving that education and creating that level of acceptance, in addition to that, we provide that level of support to neurodivergent people as well. And that just does not include people of a certain age or a certain group. What we’ve realized is that it’s, it’s kind of like a 360 degree approach, right? You can’t help a community if you don’t help everyone in that community. It’s kind of like, you know, everything is combined together with different intersections.

And what would I, um, you know, discuss with my team last time we met. We were like, you know, we don’t have a huge funding. We don’t have any funding. If we’re being, you know, raw and real here. Um, but this is something that we’re building for our kids who are going to grow up and who are not going to have access to the support.

So things that people consider, you know, they have it, but they don’t value it. Right? Um, but for neurodivergent people, it’s, it’s huge. So social support, right? Many neurodivergent people, and I’m sure you know, you know about it, Carolyn, with your experience, social isolation is a huge thing. And it doesn’t just mean that they are alone with nobody around them. Sometimes they’re socially isolated, even in a group of people because they’re masking.

And so that, that support. Um, and then, you know, just navigating. It is so hard to get simple services. Like the process is so complicated to get enrolled in Texas Workforce Commission and then kind of like, go through that and receive, you know, there are certain steps within a process and all those steps, um, for a neurodivergent person, they’re not accessible sometimes. And so, you know, what happens is that they become underemployed, unemployed, because even though the resources are there, the accessibility is not. And so, we try to kind of like bring that portion into it.

You know, I, I, I would kind of like receive criticism on that. Your website sometimes is not digitally, um, accessible or your events do not have sometimes, you know, um, accessible features like, um, ASL or live captions, but with the limited resources we have, we’re trying to expand those accessibility features for anyone who is our program participant or who attends our events.

You know, and I would say it again, even if we’re unable to do it right now, maybe in the future, we’ll have a better opportunity to improve our accessibility features. But this is something that should not be, you know, a compromise. That’s a necessity. So now our mission is more of, you know, educating and creating, um, acceptance of neurodiversity to directly serving the neurodivergent population to give them access to the resources.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. And that’s so important because, as you said, looking at everything holistically, there’s just so many challenges, you know, starting at awareness at the very basic and going through acceptance and support and, you know, all the way to like disability justice and disability rights, you know, especially with things going on right now in the United States. So there’s just so many opportunities and so much need in, in the community, for that type of support.

And in terms of the people that you support, is it mainly around autism and ADHD? Is that the main focus?

Samar Waqar: Yes, so we have a focus on autism and ADHD. Part of the reason is the limitation of resources. Neurodiversity is a huge umbrella and for us to be able to support everything under that umbrella would, yeah, so our focus is on autism and ADHD for now.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. And then you mentioned some different supports and events, like what kinds of events or other services do you offer through Kind Theory?

Samar Waqar: We, um, we offer a couple of, so we launched our in person programs in the year 2024. And so, as I talked about earlier, when it comes to supporting neurodivergent people within your community, there are a lot of intersectional elements as well. You know, there are a lot of co occurring conditions with autism and ADHD as well, so we have to kind of, like, design our programs keeping all of that in mind, right?

And so, what we started off with was a community resource and engagement program, and so that was not just a program for autistic people, that was really for the families, for caregivers, for teachers, for instructors, any staff that kind of like deals with children or employees who are neurodivergent, right?

And so that was basically a neurodiversity affirming education session, uh, where we would let them know about what autism is or what ADHD is through the lens of neurodiversity, what services are available and connecting them to those resources. If an autistic person or if, um, a neurodivergent person reaches out to us and lets us know that they’re struggling with something or the other, and they want a resource engagement session on that, so then we kind of like take their request and we provide them that information. So those are community resource and engagement sessions.

Then we launched another, when we had our in person launch event, um, here and I would like to give a shout out to JD Finish Line Foundation. They issued us a grant earlier in 2024, which enabled us to kind of like launch here in person in Texas. And so after that, what happened was, um, a lot of neurodivergent people started reaching out to us expressing their support needs because they felt like it was a safe space, right? Yeah. And that’s really important to kind of like create that sense of belongingness. And so they started reaching out to us and they started sharing that one of the major needs that they have within this community is employment. And it’s not just employment or applying for jobs per se, it’s kind of navigating the entire process. Because the process, let’s, let’s be honest here that the processes are not designed keeping in mind how a neurodivergent brain may work. And even in neurodivergent brains, there’s a lot of diversity, right? And so, organizations these days, or since forever, at least now, they’re more kind of like aware of this, but since forever, they haven’t designed their process, you know, in a way that it creates belongingness or it creates it accommodates every brain.

And so that need came. And so we developed our program Employee Resource and Support Network. So through that program, we provide one on one coaching to our neurodivergent, um, clients or participants. Our programs are free of cost. Um, and I hate calling our participants “clients” or something, it’s more like we’re a family. Um, but for the lack of a better word.

Yes, so 1 on 1 coaching, then we help them navigate the process. We conduct a needs assessment. We see what their social needs are, what their, um, you know, what challenges they are having socially as well as professionally. And then we kind of like, go in a very informal way of providing them a solution because sometimes it’s not cost, um, you know, it’s not the cost or it’s not the money. Sometimes it’s a simple adjustment. And more so often it is that instead of, you know, like, a heavy training or something like that. So that’s our E. R. S. N. program and it, it varies, um, the results vary from what a person may need. So there’s no set thing on what we focus on, it would really depend on what the need assessment tells us.

We have the municipal accessibility program are 2 very young, um, content contributors, autistic contributors. They create, and I’m sure, you know, Hasan and Ashvita, they create art pieces coupled with powerful lines, and that’s just kind of like to motivate decision makers to take decisions that take into account the needs of autistic people.

So, um, I’m not sure how much time do we have, but there’s these little things here and there that we’re doing, um, you know, according to the minimum capacity that we have right now, because we’re run on volunteers. Um, and so it’s, it’s just, we help where we can.

Carolyn Kiel: That’s really great. Yeah. It’s important to have that community support of people with lived experience. You know, it’s important to have support in the health care system and government supports, but also that community where, as you said, people feel safe to come to you and say, listen, I have these needs. What resources do you have? How can you help me? And the fact that you’re able to, you know, kind of help guide people through what are often very complicated processes for like looking for employment or getting support from other places. Um, I think that’s really powerful. We, we need as much of that as we can in the community. So that’s really awesome.

Samar Waqar: Most of the times I have found, uh, that, um, neurodivergent people are often faced with a judgment. Their credibility is questioned. Their authenticity is questioned. So most of the times, the challenges that they face with their mental health or the challenges that they face otherwise, it can simply be, you know, addressed by just being there with your lived experience and sharing, you know, “we’ve been there. We’ve done that. And you’re going to come the other way.” It’s just like, you know, we’ve got to create a space for ourselves. We’ve got to create that sense of safety for ourselves. So that lived experience, I cannot emphasize on that enough. And I would like to request all the organizations that are here that, you know, that are listening that please do not underestimate the power of lived experience. Yeah, so I just wanted to put it out there.

Carolyn Kiel: Now that’s really important. And you know, you have your own lived experience as a neurodivergent person and the parent of neurodivergent kids. How does your own experience impact? Like did you know you were neurodivergent before your son got diagnosed as autistic?

Samar Waqar: So I, uh, growing up, I always used to tell my friends and I remember mentioning it to my mom occasionally that I don’t think I was made for this planet because like that was, but I didn’t even know what neurodiversity was. And from where I was, you had to kind of be a certain way to be autistic or ADHD. And so I had that um ignorant understanding of what autism and ADHD is. And I’m sorry for using that word, but really it is what it is.

When I came here and I was, you know, I went through the burnout and a lot of things that were presenting as medical issues. Um, they did very heavy testing on me, neurological testing and all sorts of things. And all the tests, you know, they didn’t display any underlying issue and all of that. And, you know, and still I’m struggling with my executive functioning and all of that. And then one doctor finally, you know, um, she told me, have you ever considered the possibility because, you know, neurodivergence is genetic, have you ever considered a possibility that if your son is autistic, maybe you are too? And, since you haven’t accommodated for yourself for so long, you now need some rest. And so she was very neurodiversity affirming and then she recommended.

And so imagine that I doubted my credibility. I had the huge imposter syndrome episode. I was like, that can’t be. I had to go to two to three evaluations just to believe like okay. And then finally, um, you know, and I, I, I, I didn’t need the diagnosis to provide me for any service or anything like that. I needed it for personal validation, because the struggles I faced with the impulsivity and I don’t want to get into too many details there, but certain labels were assigned and certain judgments were made throughout my life. And there was a time that I started beginning to feel worthless, right? And so that diagnosis just kind of like, you know, made me understand how my brain works and helped me create accessibility for myself. And that really changed for me. So I’m really thankful for the medical providers who were neurodiversity affirming for me, um, and who helped me get where I am today.

Carolyn Kiel: That’s really great. And yeah, and as your story shows, a lot of times our needs change over the course of our lives from the result of various life events or burnout or just, you know, our environments change. So that’s really important as well. Absolutely.

Samar, it’s been really great learning about your story and about all the great work that Kind Theory is doing. How can people get in touch with you if they want to learn more about Kind Theory?

Samar Waqar: All right, so we, um, and I’m really glad you asked that question because we have been working to kind of like, getting directly in touch with people, in a way that if they need support, or if they’re looking for an organization that seems like a safe space, then that is us.

But that being said, um, we do need, in fact, the entire DEIAB community needs help and support from our communities. And how that is, is that we have educators who have lived experience and we have developed trainings for organizations, for schools, for, you know, community or service or, you know, any, anything that you think of, these are trainings that teach how to practice inclusion.

These are trainings that teach neurodiversity. These are trainings that teach everything DEIAB. And DEIAB, for those of you who don’t know, is diversity, equity, inclusion, accessibility, and belonging. And so, if you’re a part of an organization or if you have contacts who would like to support, please help them connect with us via our Facebook, via our email address Talktous@KindTheory dot org and please utilize our training services. What that does is every cent that we receive through our training services or our consulting services goes into the programs that we offer to our local neurodivergent population over here, and it keeps the organization running really because, you know, there’s only so much we can do with limited volunteering.

Right? And we have to keep our regular jobs for bread and butter. So, there’s a lot of a lot of elements there. So, if, if, if you’re looking to support DEIAB initiatives, please do support us. We are introducing our programs, consulting and, uh, training services to other organizations.

Carolyn Kiel: Absolutely. And I’m assuming that any organization who’s interested in your trainings, they don’t have to be located in Texas. They can be anywhere.

Samar Waqar: No, we we can do a virtually as well. And I’m, I’m chuckling right now because, you know, our board members are all around the universe. It’s it’s because when I started, um, I didn’t even know that Texas had something neurodiversity related. And then once we started with the other board members, that’s how I met people here locally.

So, yeah, so it’s open to anywhere, even in fact, last year we had a workshop in Pakistan, uh, for Bahria Special Education School. And that was, um, kind of like more of the basic Neurodiversity 101 for understanding autism and ADHD through a neurodiversity lens. So really Carolyn, it’s just like creating that paradigm shift, and it’s more challenging now, more so than ever. But with the right kind of support, we would be able to do that.

Carolyn Kiel: Fabulous. And what’s the best way to get in touch? Through your website?

Samar Waqar: Through the website, yes, but, um, there is an email address: talk to us at kind theory dot org. For some reason I don’t trust website contact forms. So I, I always suggest people to please reach out to us, talk to us at kind theory dot org. And, um, I’m on LinkedIn. My name is Samar Waqar. S A M A R W A Q A R. If for some reason you’re unable to get a response through email, you can directly send me a message through LinkedIn and I would make sure that we get in touch with you.

Carolyn Kiel: That’s awesome. Okay. And I’ll also put in the show notes, I’ll put your website link, the email and a direction to your LinkedIn. So people have a couple of different ways they can get in touch with you.

Samar Waqar: I appreciate that. Thank you so much.

Carolyn Kiel: Is there anything else that you’d like our listeners to know as we close out today?

Samar Waqar: Well, I would just like to say, don’t underestimate yourself, you know? Sometimes it’s very easy to feel hopeless and in the times that we are right now, and you may feel powerless that you aren’t able to do anything. But really it’s, it’s as simple as what you’re doing right now, Carolyn.

It’s just, you know, the power of language, the power of words, the power of just, um, being there, just showing up. So do not underestimate your power, do not underestimate yourself. You have the power to make things happen. You have the power to make organizations like us flourish. You have the power to expand your impact.

So, um, if you want to learn or if you want to help how to do that, I am ready to share my thoughts with you. And that’s not under the consulting services. That’s just me and you as a friend or something. But, um, I’m just saying, we’re all here. We’re all together. And no matter how hard things get, um, we know who our people are and we’ll stick together.

Carolyn Kiel: That’s fantastic. Yeah, it’s it’s true. Every one of us can do something. And then if you get, you know, if you get all of us doing something, then it really creates that big movement. And, all together, we can make a difference and on an individual level, we can make a difference too. So, yeah.

Samar Waqar: That’s true. It’s just like, community, the power of community.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, very true. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Samar, for sharing your story today.

Samar Waqar: Of course.

Carolyn Kiel: And this wraps up this special episode of Beyond 6 Seconds as part of Podcasthon. If you enjoyed it, feel free to visit www.podcasthon.org to discover hundreds of other nonprofits and charities being highlighted by podcasters around the world. And thank you so much, Samar, for sharing your story and talking about Kind Theory today.

Samar Waqar: Thank you for having me, Carolyn. Take care.

Carolyn Kiel: Thanks for listening to Beyond 6 Seconds. Please help me spread the word about this podcast. Share it with a friend, give it a shout out on your social media, or write a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast player. You can find all of my episodes and sign up for my free newsletter at Beyond6seconds.net. Until next time.