Episode 174: Autastic – with Diane J. Wright

The episode transcript is below.

Carolyn Kiel: Welcome to Beyond 6 Seconds, the podcast that goes beyond the six second first impression to share the extraordinary stories of neurodivergent people. I’m your host, Carolyn Kiel.

On today’s episode, I’m speaking with Diane J. Wright. Diane is a diversity, equity, inclusion and accessibility media consultant working in film and television. She’s also the founder of Autastic.com, which provides resources and community for late identified autistic people of color and their allies. Diane, welcome to the podcast!

Diane J. Wright: It’s always thrilling to hear that. I don’t know why, but thank you. Thank you for inviting me.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, happy to have you here and really excited to learn more about the story behind Autastic and your own journey as well. So how did you first realize that you were neurodivergent?

Diane J. Wright: Yeah, and I, and I love that question because every time I hear someone else answer it in different venues, it’s the same, but different. Like we have these common grounds, but they’re slightly different. And for me to answer that, I think it helps to understand who I was, who I thought I was at the time, which was somebody who had reinvented themselves so many times. A career chameleon. Like it was pretty successful to use my set of strengths that I had to get along in the world. And I thought I was doing what everybody did. And I got to my forties and I looked around and all those things that I thought I was doing right, didn’t add up to where I thought they were supposed to be, if you know what I mean? Go to school, get good grades and you’ll have blah, blah, blah, like all of that stuff. And I had done all of that many times over. Full careers! I’ve had many full careers and I was sitting there going, why is this not like these people I’m looking at, where you’re supposed to be?

And what I now know, that turned into a pretty significant burnout, one of many. But I didn’t know that. So I was researching trauma and I was researching just anything to help me figure out. I was done. Like there was nowhere to go next. I had, I was out of ideas of reinvention. And I stumbled on an article, and at the time there weren’t that many, by a woman who was talking about being identified as autistic as an adult. And she had nothing in common with me that I could tell on the surface, yet she spoke like she was inside my head, and I’d never ever had that experience. And I just, like it put the brakes on everything. I was like, what is this?

And then I thought, okay, there’s other things though. There’s Highly Sensitive Person and there’s you know, all the, all the things we now know pretty much point to the same, same place.

But I didn’t, you know, know anything about anything. I didn’t even know there was a huge stigma around autism because I wasn’t involved in any of those circles. So I thought nothing of it and I let it go. I just sort of kept looking, but it kept coming back. And it came back enough times and I was like, oh, I see. And there’s a word. And if there’s a word, there are people. And if there are people enough to make a word, then I’m not the only person experiencing that. And that started like that excitement and that feeling of wait, somebody knows what it’s like to be me? And a lot of people know what it’s like to be me. And I just was so excited about finding out about that.

Carolyn Kiel: I was also in my forties when I got diagnosed autistic, so it’s interesting to hear. Reading the article, cuz I had a similar, you know, one of many things was finding other women writing about their experience and it’s like, oh, it’s like the way they described their childhood is how I was described in childhood. And all of these other, you know, realizations. And yeah, I know my own understanding of autism was just so very different from what it actually is, now that I’ve spent time talking to other autistic people.

Diane J. Wright: Mm-hmm. Yeah, of course. I went straight to the DSM, right? Ooh. What’s the, what’s the official, like, tell me all about it, I need and all the things. I was like, oh, that’s not me.

The ADHD came much, much later. And my partner is ADHD. And through this discovery process, we’ve figured that out about like both of us and understand how we’ve become such good partners and friends for so long, because of all these things we have in common on this surface, way below the surface, you know what I mean? Like how we experience the world. So that’s been helpful for everybody.

Carolyn Kiel: That’s good. Yeah, absolutely. It’s good to have a partner and people in your life who understand and have a common experience of things.

Diane J. Wright: I lucked out.

Carolyn Kiel: So, I mean, in other ways, discovering that you are autistic and ADHD, how did that help you? Because it sounded like you were really searching and just trying to find your way in life before this.

Diane J. Wright: Yeah, I was at the, at the end of my rope for sure. Because the messaging out there is, if you don’t do all these things or if you, if you can manage to do them, if you’re privileged enough and you have enough resources to do those things, then you’re worthy. So I wasn’t aware enough yet to really believe, I mean, I knew, but I didn’t believe that I was worthy of anything because I wasn’t able to make these things work like everyone else was supposed to. Like, it was, it was a whole core crushing, ugh. So I understand when people come to the community in that state. I understand it in my way, very, very deeply.

It made me, and I’m still working on this, fully reject those standards and those messages, and I’m learning every day and the community helps me do this, how to be a person on my own terms, even when nothing around me is reflecting how I need to live. Like for instance, it was a holiday recently. I was not aware, as usually happens, cuz I’m not, I don’t connect to the news. Like, I don’t. I live in a very conscious bubble that I’ve made to keep myself happy. And so I went out in the world and everything was different because it was a holiday. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. But instead of being mad at myself, because I should know this and everybody knows this and where are my plans and why am I not doing these things I’m supposed to be doing? I was like, yeah, I had a good day, right? Yeah ok. It’s all good. So that’s definitely given me the freedom to change my perspective and like set my values and what I want from myself on a different bar. One that I’m making.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. And that’s important. And giving yourself that grace, I think is one of the, like one of the first things that I, I know I had to start thinking about is that, you know, as, as you said, not being hard on yourself for not realizing that it was a holiday. It’s just, you know, okay, well you had a good day.

Diane J. Wright: And that’s a very innocuous example, but it, it is definitely not easy. And especially when you’re a person of color, it’s especially not easy to anchor yourself to your own worth when the world is just giving you messages and telling you, reacting to you, and just all the things are not really supportive in a lot of spaces.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, absolutely. You had your discovery of being neurodivergent later in your life. What was it like growing up as an undiagnosed or undiscovered autistic girl, child of color with ADHD?

Diane J. Wright: Well, before I answer that, like I decided to start using unidentified or late identified because I didn’t feel the diagnosis was appropriate in any way. So self-diagnosed, I just, I decided I needed a new term, so I put that one out there and people seem to, people seem to understand where that’s coming from. So I just wanted to throw that out there.

But those are just some of my identities, right? Like being a woman, being autistic, being ADHD. It’s very, very difficult, and I dare say impossible, to disentangle that bundle of who I am. Because how do I know as a kid, you know, I was called chocolate. And I was, what is the word I’m looking for? I was just kind of shunned in shop class. I loved building things. So I went to woodworking and all that stuff, and I was not allowed to do that, even though I was in the class, kind of thing. Or being teacher’s pet because I color coded the supply closet. Like all those things, right? That’s misogyny and that’s racism and that’s ableism and all the, like, I can’t look back and pick those things apart. Maybe one day I will be able to, I don’t know. But I was a very different child in a sense that maybe even more so than a lot of this, of like, I’m not, it’s not trauma Olympics. But I, because I was a child of a single Black woman in a very economically depressed area, because of racism, and I went to a white school, there was that, you know? So if I was sitting off at the edge of the playground, staring at the grass and counting ants, was that because I didn’t look like the other kids and wasn’t allowed to play, or because I couldn’t catch the dodge ball cause I couldn’t coordinate, right? So I don’t know. There’s no answer to that question.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah.

Diane J. Wright: But I appreciate the question. And I love when I hear other people be able to articulate that.

Carolyn Kiel: As you said, all our identities it’s, you know, how, how do you disentangle? You really can’t. It’s all just part of your experience.

Diane J. Wright: Yeah. Well, and also I’m, I’m sure my parents both, yeah I’m pretty sure both of them were undiagnosed unidentified autistic as well in different ways. I’m pretty sure my mother had much higher support needs than I do. And she got none of those needs met.

So, you know, I was a child in that situation. She was struggling. I was struggling. And that continues in Black and brown communities. Cuz the rate of awareness is pitifully low. If people are aware, it’s through the medical model. Mostly, largely.

Carolyn Kiel: Right. And yeah, that identification of autism and ADHD, as you said, is just not as frequent among people of color.

Diane J. Wright: No. And you can’t blame people for that because you, you can’t have anything “wrong” with you. You’re already disenfranchised, or what is the word I’m looking for? You’re already not on the, on the level playing field and every little thing stacks up against you.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. And there’s, a lot of people’s ideas about what autism looks like in a person is based on little white middle class or privileged little boys.

Diane J. Wright: Mm-hmm.

Carolyn Kiel: That’s starting to change, but that’s certainly the image that I grew up with. And that was, and is still in the media today. So yeah. And then add on top of that,

Diane J. Wright: yeah.

Carolyn Kiel: racism and ableism and classism, it’s really challenging.

Diane J. Wright: Well, I mean, not that the physical aspects of who we are aren’t real, but I, in my mind, autism is very much a social mismatch situation, right? Like we don’t fit. And society is a, you have to fit in situation. And if we don’t fit even with the people who don’t fit,

Carolyn Kiel: Mm.

Diane J. Wright: it’s a tough way to go. So when you add all the isms on top of being the nerd or the weirdo or the outcast or all those already social hierarchy problems, it’s not any wonder why people aren’t in a rush to figure things out for their children. Not blaming parents. You know what I mean, I hope.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, definitely know what you mean there.

So you started a community, a group of resources to really help address a lot of this. And it’s called Autastic. It focuses specifically it’s for Black and brown late identified autistic people. What inspired you to say, you know, I’m gonna start this community? How did you see the need and how did you decide you were gonna step up and try to fill it?

Diane J. Wright: Selfishness. I just didn’t wanna be alone in my growing understanding of who I am. That’s really all it was. And as I was learning all these new things, you know, as we do, as we delve into all the things we can get our hands on, I wanted to just make it easier for other people to find it. But it really was just, I didn’t wanna be alone.

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm. So how did you get started with it? Like how did you even decide what to start with? Did the community start first or did you start collecting resources?

Diane J. Wright: Facebook, I checked, told me it was four years ago. I’d just started a Facebook group. It had a different name at the time. I think it was AutLife, which is the hashtag I keep trying to make happen, but it’s not happening. And people, thank you for Facebook algorithm, at some level kept telling people about it.

And it was a few hundred people and they had a lot to say, and they were really grateful to find that space. Because there was nothing. I couldn’t find anything cuz I didn’t know how to look or whatever. So I just started something at the time. And now we’re, I think we’re at 10,000 people, if not very close.

Carolyn Kiel: Wow.

Diane J. Wright: Yeah, it hit a milestone and it just became this community where people talk about absolutely everything. There’s hundreds of posts all day long. And when you search for something, you can find like this amazing wealth. Like, it’s just us talking to us. There’s nobody else in there, you know? And I try to really steer it to just, please just talk about anything you want, but within the context of how we see the world. It’s really hard to get that. Because when you’re new, you kind of don’t know what your perspective and how it, you don’t really understand how to communicate how that’s different. But I think that’s what’s made the difference in that space. And what’s, I’ve taken that further to the community I launched offline, but just to nudge everybody to think, okay, you wanna post about your lunch? That’s cool. Why don’t you try posting about it in terms of why you like that lunch? Is it a sensory thing? Is it a comfort thing because of executive function? Is it any number of things that, is it a stim because you like to slice carrots? Or whatever it is, try to figure out what part of that thing you enjoy is probably related to the traits that you have or are.

I think that little nudge has really helped people feel less like a rant space and more like they’re actually, we’re actually building a community to talk about what this is like.

Carolyn Kiel: So you mentioned that Autastic, or the early version of Autastic started as a Facebook group, but now it’s on a different platform now, as I understand it. Have you migrated from Facebook to the other platform entirely now?

Diane J. Wright: No, I made a conscious choice not to do that, because what I wanted to happen was to have two different kinds of conversations. So, because the Facebook community has grown so much, it’s changed in the nature of the kinds of conversations you can have with people. And you can’t really get to know 10,000 people as friends, right? You just can’t. And I wanted to make sure that we had a space where you can get to know people as friends, cuz a lot of our friendships are online, and have in depth, slow conversations and not just quick scroll things. So the entire nature of the Autastic community, which is on a separate platform, which doesn’t mine data in the same way. Anyway, I’m sure they do at some level, cuz they’re a company, but it doesn’t have advertising. It has none of those distractions. So when we log on, we’re just, it’s just us. Right? And it’s entirely different.

I have one requirement and one requirement only, is that you post an actual photo of yourself. You can be creative about it. You can wear a mask, you can hide behind your pet, whatever it is. But do do that. Show up as you, not as an avatar and not as your child or any of that stuff. And I think that has really made a huge difference because people feel like they are there in that room accountable and vulnerable, and I’m seeing a huge difference in the kind of connections that happen.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. And it seems like a balance between showing up as your authentic self, at least with a photo and saying, I am a person, not an avatar. But at the same time, because it’s off of Facebook, there’s sort of a level of, I would say privacy because, you know, Facebook and, and all its issues, really any social media platform, but this at least is a separate area where it feels more like a, kind of a closed and safer community to talk about things.

Diane J. Wright: Well, I don’t wanna be naïve. I believe anything you post online anywhere is there forever and anyone can access it. I truly do. And so the requirement I lay out there is not for everyone and I don’t check. I mean, you can do whatever you want. If you wanna post a picture of someone else, feel free. That’s not how I wanna show up in that space. And I hope others wanna show up as themselves. There is always a certain risk and if you’re not willing to take it, then I host, you know, the other group, the bigger group. Go ahead. It’s absolutely fabulous. So, it’s choose your own adventure.

Carolyn Kiel: There’s a lot of topics for people to talk about and contribute to. I know that you have some, either moderators or very active users who will regularly post like posts that are prompts that will encourage people to talk and contribute. And then of course, people can contribute to those categories in their own ways as well.

Diane J. Wright: Yeah, those are very excellent and much valued moderators. And the Autastic community is entirely run by Black and brown autistic people. So like, I’m really happy to be able to say that, cuz I don’t know if there are other places that can say that.

And I do partner with advocates to help boost their platform and there are fees for their courses. So I’m trying to pay people for their work, as well as support the community. It’s all a little self supporting bubble. But I’m trying really hard to entice more people of color to come share what they know with our community. It’s not easy though. It’s not easy. Cause there are risks involved in putting yourself in front of people. Our advocates of color have been dwindling in the last few years. And I wanna see that change, but I understand why it doesn’t.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, absolutely. It’s hard for me to encapsulize just how much there is that’s part of Autastic. Because there’s this great community that’s very active. And you also have a website that has all of these resources. Many of them for free and others are like courses and things you can pay for. I’m not describing it well! But I’m thinking like, if you are a late diagnosed autistic person of color, or late identified,

Diane J. Wright: Or an ally!

Carolyn Kiel: Or an ally, there’s just so much there to go on and learn about. Like, you know, cause a lot of times you get the discovery or the realization and then you’re like, all right, well now what do I do?

Diane J. Wright: Yeah, well that’s where it started.

Carolyn Kiel: Autastic has some of the best resources I’ve seen.

Diane J. Wright: Oh thanks, that’s so great. Thanks for saying that! Those were some of the first things I created. And welcome to the, that’s my brain you’re looking at. That’s what it does all the time. Just makes stuff. But the “start here” resources, there’s a little packet of, I think three articles. I try to have something there for someone who’s just, what? There’s nothing out there. What do I do? And it’s like here, take my hand and let me lead you through. This will get you started and it’s free.

And I also have a low cost package where I’ve gone through like vloggers I love, podcasters I love, including you. Just a handful of resources and terminology. Like, because you’re jumping into a new community with new verbiage. You already feel like you don’t fit. So it helps to have this like glossary. All the screeners I could find that are relevant and useful and I’ve bundled them all together so that somebody can just take it and go devour it and feel like they’re on a more solid footing.

They’d get there anyway, like we all get there anyway, but sometimes it takes six months and sometimes it takes two years. Whatever. This is just, here, you can trust that this is pretty good. It’s better than just wandering out in the wilderness by yourself. And then, you know, go from there.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, it’s really great. And you also have something that was important to me when I was trying to figure out if I was autistic, is there’s a crowdsourced directory of specialists. It’s one of the few, and I mean, obviously crowdsourced, you have to do your own vetting. But just to have that resource and just know, like, who can I talk to? And because it varies by, you know, where you are. So it’s important to have that.

Diane J. Wright: Yeah. And if you pull out and look at all the world and where the pins are, it’s pretty obvious where there’s a whole lot of nothing. And if anyone out there seeing this and you know somebody, please add it. The instructions are in the legend and really it is just a Google map. If you know of anyone who assesses adults, provides therapy to autistic adults, occupational therapy, anybody that can help our community, the information is so sparse, just put it on there and make notes. If it’s yours or whatever, just put it in the notes so people can find you. Cause we need stuff, and it’s just hard to find.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. So many great resources there. So like what kind of response has Autastic received from either the members of the community, or even if you’re hearing from people who are just looking at the website and using the resources there?

Diane J. Wright: Yeah, it’s funny. I’m not a person who counts followers and all of that. Like, I don’t check the logs or any of that stuff. But I am lucky enough that every now and again, somebody will take the time to send me a note about how the resources on the site, or even like the selections I’ve made in the Shop that are not for kids, like just that alone sometimes helps people feel a little more validated. Like, yeah, I need a thing to chew because you know, it just makes me calmer and it’s not a pacifier. Just really overwhelmingly positive and people have been so kind to let me know that. I’m kind of blown away every time it happens.

And then when we get in the community, which is a closer knit group of people, I really get to see how lives are actually changing. Especially people who sign up for the onboarding course, which is where I sort of take a small group of people, again, take them by the hand. And it’s not about learning the information cuz we have that. It’s about providing context. So I help people tell their stories and see their lives from a little bit of a shift to a different angle. And that has been phenomenal. People have rekindled passions that they thought they lost forever, cuz it just felt good again, like they came out of burnout and it just felt good again. People have changed jobs, like really big things. There’s small things, of course which are wonderful. But I did not expect, I didn’t expect that. And it’s amazing. It’s so amazing! Sorry I’m gushing, but it’s gush worthy!

Carolyn Kiel: Oh, it absolutely is. Yeah to just make a difference and, again, to have a resource like that, it really is like a treasure trove.

Diane J. Wright: And to be selfish again, really, this is just me putting my brain out like blah, here, world. See, see how it is. I’ve done that in a masked way. I’ve given people what I’ve known or the skills I acquired so that they can make money or whatever it is jobs do for other people you work for. But this is me. This is how I see things and using my pattern recognition skills and using my hyper empathy and, and the wild variety of experiences I’ve had, to help other people see life and themselves differently. Like that’s validating for me, cuz I mean, we all wanna feel like we matter, and within our community, we do. We’re not the oddballs. We’re so comfortable together.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, definitely. We matter in just being able to make a difference in such a profound and life changing way for so many people.

Diane J. Wright: Well, yeah, and I keep saying we have every, you know, nearly, not in my Autastic community, but within the larger autistic community, we have everybody we need. Like, we are skilled and caring and passionate and just all the things. And if we could find each other enough. It’s kind of like the Buy Black movement. Like you have everyone you need, it’s not to the exclusion of anyone else, but it is to the inclusion of people like you, because it’s easier. And it helps support everybody. And I don’t know, it’s just like, I put up a shingle and now here I am!

Carolyn Kiel: Looking forward, what are your goals for Autastic? Do you have big things that you still wanna do with it?

Diane J. Wright: Well, yes and no. My goal is not to have goals really. Cause I’ve lived my entire life meeting somebody else’s goals, or goals I think are mine, but where do they come from, you know? I don’t wanna put that on myself. And yet I find I get up every morning and I’m like, Ooh, what can I do today? Or like, yay, I did this thing, it’s done finally! Phew, oh, what can I do now? It’s like, I’ve always, but it’s so, it gives me so much joy and it’s just fun for, it’s an outlet. It’s my thing, right?

So what I do want though, in a bigger sense, is for more Black and brown people to know who we are and to find each other so we can change our lives for the better and feel less alone and less vulnerable. Like it’s so hard to know that we’re out there in numbers, equal numbers! Like there’s no difference in the rate. Like we’re, it’s the same, but yet you look at who’s talking, who’s the community made of, who’s the media made of, who’s getting funding, who’s getting put on public shows as representation, like all of that stuff. It’s not us. And if it is us, it’s a very specific view of us, unfortunately, and not very flattering. So what I want is significant funding from philanthropists and corporations. Those funds go other places all the time. And autistic adults are at the end of the line generally, and people of color who are autistic adults aren’t even thought of a lot of the time. Just forgotten. So I want that to stop.

Autastic is member supported. Like I fund it myself out of my family funds. And by family, I don’t mean parents, cause I don’t have that kind of privilege, let’s say. From money that I’ve made in my life is what I’m saying, and my partner makes. We fund it. And it’s member supported. And a large portion of that comes from Black and brown members. And that needs to stop. That’s not okay. I’m grateful for it. We have made this happen for ourselves and there’s, there’s a waiting list of people to come in. And I’m really excited about that, but I am trying to keep our space balanced and fair, and it’s very, very difficult to do that. I need to get the word out.

I was lucky enough to get a grant, a very small grant. Very, very, very small grant. From the color the spectrum. Do you remember that fundraiser last year? It was like a Jimmy Kimmel thing.

Carolyn Kiel: Oh, I do! Really?

Diane J. Wright: Yeah. They raised like billions of dollars.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Diane J. Wright: Yeah. They gave me something with a couple of zeros. I applied for more. I’m not ungrateful. I’m just like, seriously?

Carolyn Kiel: Mm-hmm.

Diane J. Wright: Really? Ok. So that is to develop a program specifically for our Black members, which I actually am starting this week to do that work. Again, not ungrateful, it’s just not enough. And I don’t want it for me. I want it for all, like any advocate that wants that funding. They should like wave their flag and it should come raining down on them from all these places. Cuz the money is there, absolutely out there.

Carolyn Kiel: I think you were already starting to touch on this, but what is the best way for people to support Autastic and help it grow?

Diane J. Wright: Yeah. So, so Autastic.com/support! I’ve listed a bunch of different ways. You can do a one time gift. You can do an ongoing, some people do ongoing support for which I’m super grateful. Or patronage, you get some goodies, if you want like a little tote bag or a t-shirt or something.

Again, every time I see that hit my mailbox, I’m just speechless about it. Like, I cannot believe that people are so generous. And we are not the people who need to be doing that. You know? Like we are the people who were “special needs kids,” as a new friend said recently, who didn’t get our needs met. You know? I realize there’s problems with that terminology, but the idea is, we were those same kids that now have all kinds of support, which still may not be adequate, but there are people, programs in schools, and after school, and people whose jobs it is, is to sit in a class with someone and help them through it. Like we got none of that. Same kids. So we should not be funding our own stuff. But it’s going well, thank you everybody for doing that! We are able, it’s been a year now and it’s no signs of stopping. We’ve got all kinds of new stuff coming out.

And I’m rambling, but I do reserve a percentage of every single donation and dollar that comes in for our Black and brown members, whether it’s direct financial support to take a course that they wanna take and can’t, or compensation for our member driven initiatives. Like right now, we have an art based social that we’re getting together around art making, and I’m paying our facilitator out of that fund. Right? Or anything else that comes up. So it’s all good. And I’m really grateful for us to be able to do that, but I’m kinda mad that we have to.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah. Mm …Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, so I’ll put the contact information in the show notes so that anyone can find Autastic. I’ll put the support link in there as well. So I guess just how do people get in touch to, you know, learn more about Autastic? What’s the best way for them to find it and to get involved?

Diane J. Wright: It’s Autastic.com. If you wanna support, Autastic.com/support. And if you wanna find me, I’m at WeAreAutastic on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. Mostly Twitter, cuz I think in words.

Carolyn Kiel: Fantastic. I’ll put links to those in the show notes so that people can access that really easily. Wonderful.

Diane J. Wright: Thanks so much.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, well, thanks, Diane. It was great talking with you. And thanks for all the really great work that you do to support the late identified autistic community, people of color and their allies. Really great resources. I know it’s a ton of work, but definitely does not go unnoticed. And hopefully with this we’ll be able to get much more of the support that Autastic deserves.

Diane J. Wright: And other advocates as well. Yes.

Carolyn Kiel: Yes.

Diane J. Wright: Thank you for your support and getting the word out. I very much appreciate it, because the conversation needs to include everyone.

Carolyn Kiel: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you.

Carolyn Kiel: Thanks for listening to Beyond 6 Seconds. Please help me spread the word about this podcast. Share it with a friend, give it a shout out on your social media or write a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast player. You can find all of my episodes and sign up for my free newsletter at beyond6seconds.net. Until next time.